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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:18 am 
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Now what is left for Manny?

Sure he's only got a few fights left but that fight with Marquez sort of tarnished his record, definitely.

Whoever fights Manny next, if they are smart, will never engage with Manny. As long as they backpedal and counter only, then they will exploit Manny's glaring weaknesses in the sweet science.

NOW HERE IT IS, these WEAKNESSES have been around forever.

It first showed up in parts of Marquez 1 & 2, at the times Marquez didn't try to be macho.
It REALLY SHOWED up against Morales I. Again, Manny looked very deficient, and the only exciting highlights that occurred is when Morales WANTED to engage, because he likes to please fans.

THEN IT SHOWED AGAINST BARRERA 2. Barrera didn't try to engage and yes Manny won a landslide but it showed that Manny had to overcome his inability to cut the ring off by simply throwing dozens and dozens of punches. Hardly a real solution, especially if he's NOT BEING COUNTERED. Manny didn't destroy Barrera, he just outscored him. Barrera was nowhere DAZED like in his first fight, simply by this one adjustment.

The weaknesses showed again when he went up against COTTO. Now I realize Manny floored him 2x, and dominated without a doubt. BUT IF YOU REALLY WATCHED IT, some of you may have noticed that around rd 7 or 8 up until the fight ended, you would have seen Manny's offense blunted by Cotto reluctance to engage and his propensity to back-pedal. Call it running, call him chicken, but whatever you call it, MANNY CAN'T CORNER IT.

Manny's inability to set up a variety of combos (overly reliant on his 1-1-2 or jab-jab-jab- left to the body- right hook OR his lead right hook to the body OR straight left to the body followed by right hook while darting to his own right) -- Manny's inability to throw more variety is really exploited when nobody is pressing forward against him. It's like his efficiency drops to miniscule numbers.

Now I realize that Mayweather Jr. throws even less combinations than Manny, but Mayweather's Jr. defense is virtually impenetrable, making the few counter punches he throws, VERY EFFECTIVE as HIS RECORD DOES REFLECT.

That being said, what is disappointing is that after all this time, Freddie Roach still hasn't found a way to make Manny competent in some of the most fundamental aspects of boxing, NAMELY cutting of the damn ring.


Manny needs one big fight against Mayweather Jr. to cash in because even if Manny fights some lower tier fighters, as long as the fighter has the discipline to not be "Macho", then Manny's offense will be significantly blunted.

Someone convince me that Manny can find a way to deal with counterpunchers who use the entire ring. Because up till now, the majority of Manny's wins are up against less physically gifted or less technical boxers...............

HE IS STILL, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES -- ONE DIMENSIONAL. (as a Pacfan, that sucks)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:25 am 
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If ever PAC vs. PBF will happen how much are you willing to bet on PBF?! 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:29 am 
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NorCal wrote:
Now what is left for Manny?

Sure he's only got a few fights left but that fight with Marquez sort of tarnished his record, definitely.

Whoever fights Manny next, if they are smart, will never engage with Manny. As long as they backpedal and counter only, then they will exploit Manny's glaring weaknesses in the sweet science.

NOW HERE IT IS, these WEAKNESSES have been around forever.

It first showed up in parts of Marquez 1 & 2, at the times Marquez didn't try to be macho.
It REALLY SHOWED up against Morales I. Again, Manny looked very deficient, and the only exciting highlights that occurred is when Morales WANTED to engage, because he likes to please fans.

THEN IT SHOWED AGAINST BARRERA 2. Barrera didn't try to engage and yes Manny won a landslide but it showed that Manny had to overcome his inability to cut the ring off by simply throwing dozens and dozens of punches. Hardly a real solution, especially if he's NOT BEING COUNTERED. Manny didn't destroy Barrera, he just outscored him. Barrera was nowhere DAZED like in his first fight, simply by this one adjustment.

The weaknesses showed again when he went up against COTTO. Now I realize Manny floored him 2x, and dominated without a doubt. BUT IF YOU REALLY WATCHED IT, some of you may have noticed that around rd 7 or 8 up until the fight ended, you would have seen Manny's offense blunted by Cotto reluctance to engage and his propensity to back-pedal. Call it running, call him chicken, but whatever you call it, MANNY CAN'T CORNER IT.

Manny's inability to set up a variety of combos (overly reliant on his 1-1-2 or jab-jab-jab- left to the body- right hook OR his lead right hook to the body OR straight left to the body followed by right hook while darting to his own right) -- Manny's inability to throw more variety is really exploited when nobody is pressing forward against him. It's like his efficiency drops to miniscule numbers.

Now I realize that Mayweather Jr. throws even less combinations than Manny, but Mayweather's Jr. defense is virtually impenetrable, making the few counter punches he throws, VERY EFFECTIVE as HIS RECORD DOES REFLECT.

That being said, what is disappointing is that after all this time, Freddie Roach still hasn't found a way to make Manny competent in some of the most fundamental aspects of boxing, NAMELY cutting of the damn ring.


Manny needs one big fight against Mayweather Jr. to cash in because even if Manny fights some lower tier fighters, as long as the fighter has the discipline to not be "Macho", then Manny's offense will be significantly blunted.

Someone convince me that Manny can find a way to deal with counterpunchers who use the entire ring. Because up till now, the majority of Manny's wins are up against less physically gifted or less technical boxers...............

HE IS STILL, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES -- ONE DIMENSIONAL. (as a Pacfan, that sucks)



now i guess its time for you to find another flawless fighter for you to admire..and stop calling yourself a pacfan..


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:32 am 
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NorCal wrote:
Now what is left for Manny?

Sure he's only got a few fights left but that fight with Marquez sort of tarnished his record, definitely.

Whoever fights Manny next, if they are smart, will never engage with Manny. As long as they backpedal and counter only, then they will exploit Manny's glaring weaknesses in the sweet science.

NOW HERE IT IS, these WEAKNESSES have been around forever.

It first showed up in parts of Marquez 1 & 2, at the times Marquez didn't try to be macho.
It REALLY SHOWED up against Morales I. Again, Manny looked very deficient, and the only exciting highlights that occurred is when Morales WANTED to engage, because he likes to please fans.

THEN IT SHOWED AGAINST BARRERA 2. Barrera didn't try to engage and yes Manny won a landslide but it showed that Manny had to overcome his inability to cut the ring off by simply throwing dozens and dozens of punches. Hardly a real solution, especially if he's NOT BEING COUNTERED. Manny didn't destroy Barrera, he just outscored him. Barrera was nowhere DAZED like in his first fight, simply by this one adjustment.

The weaknesses showed again when he went up against COTTO. Now I realize Manny floored him 2x, and dominated without a doubt. BUT IF YOU REALLY WATCHED IT, some of you may have noticed that around rd 7 or 8 up until the fight ended, you would have seen Manny's offense blunted by Cotto reluctance to engage and his propensity to back-pedal. Call it running, call him chicken, but whatever you call it, MANNY CAN'T CORNER IT.

Manny's inability to set up a variety of combos (overly reliant on his 1-1-2 or jab-jab-jab- left to the body- right hook OR his lead right hook to the body OR straight left to the body followed by right hook while darting to his own right) -- Manny's inability to throw more variety is really exploited when nobody is pressing forward against him. It's like his efficiency drops to miniscule numbers.

Now I realize that Mayweather Jr. throws even less combinations than Manny, but Mayweather's Jr. defense is virtually impenetrable, making the few counter punches he throws, VERY EFFECTIVE as HIS RECORD DOES REFLECT.

That being said, what is disappointing is that after all this time, Freddie Roach still hasn't found a way to make Manny competent in some of the most fundamental aspects of boxing, NAMELY cutting of the damn ring.


Manny needs one big fight against Mayweather Jr. to cash in because even if Manny fights some lower tier fighters, as long as the fighter has the discipline to not be "Macho", then Manny's offense will be significantly blunted.

Someone convince me that Manny can find a way to deal with counterpunchers who use the entire ring. Because up till now, the majority of Manny's wins are up against less physically gifted or less technical boxers...............

HE IS STILL, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES -- ONE DIMENSIONAL. (as a Pacfan, that sucks)



You speak the truth brother man.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:37 am 
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it would be a boring fight this Pac vs PBF, I believe Mayweather will ultimately box his way to a boring UD when he fights the Pacman.....expect boos in the ring for it will not be an action fight but more of a boxing clinic. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:41 am 
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so we are all here because of a one dimensional fighter.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:41 am 
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i think you've been to spoiled by manny. if you expect him to KO everyone he meets, then prepare to be disappointed. he's fought fighters that have fought backing-off and for the most part, he's dominated most of them save for marquez. you mention that he wasn't as effective vs barrera on the 2nd fight but barrera fought to survive, same as clottey, same as mosely. even cotto fought backing off in the 2nd half of their fight which made the fight boring towards the end. none of these had winning in mid when they fought backwards. a lot of fighters can survive by backing-off against pacquiao and make him less dominant but only a few can fight well enough backing-off and still actually have a good shot at winning, the only two that come to mind are marquez and mayweather. given that those two are elite counter punchers, that isn't too shabby at all . manny's actually a good counter puncher, he's shown it against hatton and also show a few good ones against marquez. a lot of people are quick to put manny in doghouse because manny had trouble against another elite fighter who has the perfect style against him.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:45 am 
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dsource1981 wrote:
NorCal wrote:
Now what is left for Manny?

Sure he's only got a few fights left but that fight with Marquez sort of tarnished his record, definitely.

Whoever fights Manny next, if they are smart, will never engage with Manny. As long as they backpedal and counter only, then they will exploit Manny's glaring weaknesses in the sweet science.

NOW HERE IT IS, these WEAKNESSES have been around forever.

It first showed up in parts of Marquez 1 & 2, at the times Marquez didn't try to be macho.
It REALLY SHOWED up against Morales I. Again, Manny looked very deficient, and the only exciting highlights that occurred is when Morales WANTED to engage, because he likes to please fans.

THEN IT SHOWED AGAINST BARRERA 2. Barrera didn't try to engage and yes Manny won a landslide but it showed that Manny had to overcome his inability to cut the ring off by simply throwing dozens and dozens of punches. Hardly a real solution, especially if he's NOT BEING COUNTERED. Manny didn't destroy Barrera, he just outscored him. Barrera was nowhere DAZED like in his first fight, simply by this one adjustment.

The weaknesses showed again when he went up against COTTO. Now I realize Manny floored him 2x, and dominated without a doubt. BUT IF YOU REALLY WATCHED IT, some of you may have noticed that around rd 7 or 8 up until the fight ended, you would have seen Manny's offense blunted by Cotto reluctance to engage and his propensity to back-pedal. Call it running, call him chicken, but whatever you call it, MANNY CAN'T CORNER IT.

Manny's inability to set up a variety of combos (overly reliant on his 1-1-2 or jab-jab-jab- left to the body- right hook OR his lead right hook to the body OR straight left to the body followed by right hook while darting to his own right) -- Manny's inability to throw more variety is really exploited when nobody is pressing forward against him. It's like his efficiency drops to miniscule numbers.

Now I realize that Mayweather Jr. throws even less combinations than Manny, but Mayweather's Jr. defense is virtually impenetrable, making the few counter punches he throws, VERY EFFECTIVE as HIS RECORD DOES REFLECT.

That being said, what is disappointing is that after all this time, Freddie Roach still hasn't found a way to make Manny competent in some of the most fundamental aspects of boxing, NAMELY cutting of the damn ring.


Manny needs one big fight against Mayweather Jr. to cash in because even if Manny fights some lower tier fighters, as long as the fighter has the discipline to not be "Macho", then Manny's offense will be significantly blunted.

Someone convince me that Manny can find a way to deal with counterpunchers who use the entire ring. Because up till now, the majority of Manny's wins are up against less physically gifted or less technical boxers...............

HE IS STILL, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES -- ONE DIMENSIONAL. (as a Pacfan, that sucks)



You speak the truth brother man.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SAD TO SAY, BUT I AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU!!!

It is quite pathetic, that despite years and years of being together, Manny and Roach (or should I single-handedly point out Manny himself) STILL DO NOT KNOW how to cut the ring off effectively. In the Marquez III fight, instead of Manny going to his right TO AVOID JMM's right and cut him off (JMM going to his left, to avoid MANNY's vaunted left straight), he kept going to his left, in front of JMM's right counters! It was amateurish at it's best. If Manny fights like that against Floyd, he might as well forget about it (big money though). Floyd will stop him, no doubt!

Anyway, DSource, I encourage you to write an article about Manny's weaknesses, to bring it to his attention. Forget the pactards who will attack you. You will be doing Manny a favor actually if you do this. Once you write the article, I will send it to Roach (a copy of it via certified mail). I promise!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:46 am 
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Style make fight, PBF always hide when under attack.

JMM chin is tougher than Floydie .

The fight could go either way :)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:59 am 
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pnksntdead wrote:
i think you've been to spoiled by manny. if you expect him to KO everyone he meets, then prepare to be disappointed. he's fought fighters that have fought backing-off and for the most part, he's dominated most of them save for marquez. you mention that he wasn't as effective vs barrera on the 2nd fight but barrera fought to survive, same as clottey, same as mosely. even cotto fought backing off in the 2nd half of their fight which made the fight boring towards the end. none of these had winning in mid when they fought backwards. a lot of fighters can survive by backing-off against pacquiao and make him less dominant but only a few can fight well enough backing-off and still actually have a good shot at winning, the only two that come to mind are marquez and mayweather. given that those two are elite counter punchers, that isn't too shabby at all . manny's actually a good counter puncher, he's shown it against hatton and also show a few good ones against marquez. a lot of people are quick to put manny in doghouse because manny had trouble against another elite fighter who has the perfect style against him.


The reason I am wrote this thread is to highlight the fact that the people who just "Tried to Survive" managed EVADE Manny and wore these guys DIDN'T REALLY PUNCH BACK.

A slightly more talented counter-puncher, not someone on Floyd's or Marquez's level, but someone even less talented, as long as they follow the "DON'T ENGAGE" mentality, will slow Manny down by a large percentage. That is all I'm saying.

I realize no boxer is perfect, I'm just saying cutting of the ring is one of the first things Manny should have really worked on, even before his "Manila Ice" which is useless if you can't get into range.

Contrary to popular opinion, I love Manny Pacquiao, which is why I do my best to keep things honest, in the way I and some others see it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:00 am 
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THE EXPERTS ARE OUT TO TEACH THE RING MASTER FREDDIE










good luck!
:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:00 am 
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Floyd comes forward and is more aggressive against southpaws.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:02 am 
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you may add the SOLIS fight on early rounds. if the kid was not intimidated, it could have been close fight.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:03 am 
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okay, agree na nga lang.


Last edited by Peter Gilsonn on Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:08 am 
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NorCal wrote:
pnksntdead wrote:
i think you've been to spoiled by manny. if you expect him to KO everyone he meets, then prepare to be disappointed. he's fought fighters that have fought backing-off and for the most part, he's dominated most of them save for marquez. you mention that he wasn't as effective vs barrera on the 2nd fight but barrera fought to survive, same as clottey, same as mosely. even cotto fought backing off in the 2nd half of their fight which made the fight boring towards the end. none of these had winning in mid when they fought backwards. a lot of fighters can survive by backing-off against pacquiao and make him less dominant but only a few can fight well enough backing-off and still actually have a good shot at winning, the only two that come to mind are marquez and mayweather. given that those two are elite counter punchers, that isn't too shabby at all . manny's actually a good counter puncher, he's shown it against hatton and also show a few good ones against marquez. a lot of people are quick to put manny in doghouse because manny had trouble against another elite fighter who has the perfect style against him.


The reason I am wrote this thread is to highlight the fact that the people who just "Tried to Survive" managed EVADE Manny and wore these guys DIDN'T REALLY PUNCH BACK.

A slightly more talented counter-puncher, not someone on Floyd's or Marquez's level, but someone even less talented, as long as they follow the "DON'T ENGAGE" mentality, will slow Manny down by a large percentage. That is all I'm saying.

I realize no boxer is perfect, I'm just saying cutting of the ring is one of the first things Manny should have really worked on, even before his "Manila Ice" which is useless if you can't get into range.

Contrary to popular opinion, I love Manny Pacquiao, which is why I do my best to keep things honest, in the way I and some others see it.

What makes Pacman tick in the old days is he never stops punching, he just follow his instinct to brawl. Now caught up with old age, he cant do the 4-punch combos like before. He has limited boxing skills and learned little still, thats being highlighted in his last two fights.

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