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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:55 pm 
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eyeopener wrote:
Emmanuel53 wrote:
Say that again? You didn't dispute the video because "they are facts" and yet you argue that Pacquiao wasn't able to hurt Bradley. LOL. Watch the video again. If you don't dispute the video, then you contradict yourself because it shows Pacquiao putting a lot of hurt on Bradley who was scrambling all over the ring trying to regain his footing.
Minimal error? Bradley is a junior welterweight and was ranked the best in that division in the world by Ring Magazine in it's July issue. In fact, Bradley was ranked #8 in the Ring's Pound for Pound ratings in that issue. On the other hand who is Serhiy Fedchenko?? Marquez couldn't even finish this guy off and yet you are critical of Pacquiao's performance against Bradley.
Did I even imply that Pacquaio easily beats Marquez? You're stumbling all over the place. On the contrary you're stating categorically that "Manny will be dead meat" against Marquez this time around without even any sound basis.


putting a lot of hurt?? where? yes bradley was tagged many times but hurt? cmon. rounds 10 to 12 will tell you otherwise.

i'm very critical with his performance against bradley because it did really show his deterioration.

are you not trying to imply that pac will beat marquez?? you did even mention how marquez will even fare against bradley isn't it? are you not giving clues of comparing the results thereof??

bradley's resume has nothing to do with this 4th fight. he can be better than anyone else if you wish to see like that but then again it doesnt guarantee anything that pac will be able to beat marquez. and bradley's technical skills is way to far compared to marquez.

Ok, if you really want to put emphasis on the rank of bradley as no. 8 P4P, still pac should have knocked him out because he did knocked out cotto who is a no 3 P4P back then. who is bradley compared to cotto??? 8)


We're not talking about rounds 10 to 12. Just shows how careless you are with your obsevations. The video I posted was focused on the earlier rounds and it showed Bradley scrambling for his footing after getting tagged by solid shots from Pacquiao. Oh and the judges were not unanimous in scoring rounds 10 to 12 for Bradley. Ford scored it 10-9 for Pacquiao. Remember that you didn't dispute the video. If Bradley could take Manny's punches and wasn't hurt, why did he refuse to engage afterwards?
Did I say that Pacquiao is guaranteed to beat Marquez? Pay attention to details. You on the other hand pointed out that Manny "will be dead meat this time". So who's making the guarantee?
You keep mentioning Manny's performance against Bradley yet you fail to argue the point of Marquez's bout against Serhiy Fedchenko. Ever heard of this guy? Yet Marquez was unable to knock him out. Marquez inflicted Juan Diaz's first defeat and the latter was recognized as perhaps the best lightweight in the world during that time. Who is Fedchenko compared to Diaz? And who is Fedchenko compared to Bradley? At least Bradley was recognized as the best junior welterweight in the world and ranked in the pound for pound listings. You talk of Manny's deterioration against Bradley, how about Marquez's inability to knock out the light punching Ukranian whose last fight was an eight rounder. Talk of tunnel vision. Could you imagine that? This Ukranian was involved in an eight round fight prior to his bout against Marquez and yet your Marquez was unable to knock this guy out. And you're saying that Marquez will finish off Manny. Recent performances that of Manny against Bradley and Marquez against Serhiy Fedchenko speak otherwise.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:03 am 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
eyeopener wrote:
Emmanuel53 wrote:
Say that again? You didn't dispute the video because "they are facts" and yet you argue that Pacquiao wasn't able to hurt Bradley. LOL. Watch the video again. If you don't dispute the video, then you contradict yourself because it shows Pacquiao putting a lot of hurt on Bradley who was scrambling all over the ring trying to regain his footing.
Minimal error? Bradley is a junior welterweight and was ranked the best in that division in the world by Ring Magazine in it's July issue. In fact, Bradley was ranked #8 in the Ring's Pound for Pound ratings in that issue. On the other hand who is Serhiy Fedchenko?? Marquez couldn't even finish this guy off and yet you are critical of Pacquiao's performance against Bradley.
Did I even imply that Pacquaio easily beats Marquez? You're stumbling all over the place. On the contrary you're stating categorically that "Manny will be dead meat" against Marquez this time around without even any sound basis.


putting a lot of hurt?? where? yes bradley was tagged many times but hurt? cmon. rounds 10 to 12 will tell you otherwise.

i'm very critical with his performance against bradley because it did really show his deterioration.

are you not trying to imply that pac will beat marquez?? you did even mention how marquez will even fare against bradley isn't it? are you not giving clues of comparing the results thereof??

bradley's resume has nothing to do with this 4th fight. he can be better than anyone else if you wish to see like that but then again it doesnt guarantee anything that pac will be able to beat marquez. and bradley's technical skills is way to far compared to marquez.

Ok, if you really want to put emphasis on the rank of bradley as no. 8 P4P, still pac should have knocked him out because he did knocked out cotto who is a no 3 P4P back then. who is bradley compared to cotto??? 8)


We're not talking about rounds 10 to 12. Just shows how careless you are with your obsevations. The video I posted was focused on the earlier rounds and it showed Bradley scrambling for his footing after getting tagged by solid shots from Pacquiao. Oh and the judges were not unanimous in scoring rounds 10 to 12 for Bradley. Ford scored it 10-9 for Pacquiao. Remember that you didn't dispute the video. If Bradley could take Manny's punches and wasn't hurt, why did he refuse to engage afterwards?
Did I say that Pacquiao is guaranteed to beat Marquez? Pay attention to details. You on the other hand pointed out that Manny "will be dead meat this time". So who's making the guarantee?
You keep mentioning Manny's performance against Bradley yet you fail to argue the point of Marquez's bout against Serhiy Fedchenko. Ever heard of this guy? Yet Marquez was unable to knock him out. Marquez inflicted Juan Diaz's first defeat and the latter was recognized as perhaps the best lightweight in the world during that time. Who is Fedchenko compared to Diaz? And who is Fedchenko compared to Bradley? At least Bradley was recognized as the best junior welterweight in the world and ranked in the pound for pound listings. You talk of Manny's deterioration against Bradley, how about Marquez's inability to knock out the light punching Ukranian whose last fight was an eight rounder. Talk of tunnel vision. Could you imagine that? This Ukranian was involved in an eight round fight prior to his bout against Marquez and yet your Marquez was unable to knock this guy out. And you're saying that Marquez will finish off Manny. Recent performances that of Manny against Bradley and Marquez against Serhiy Fedchenko speak otherwise.


I agree with you but I wish you luck exchanging sensible views with the kid.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
eyeopener wrote:

putting a lot of hurt?? where? yes bradley was tagged many times but hurt? cmon. rounds 10 to 12 will tell you otherwise.

i'm very critical with his performance against bradley because it did really show his deterioration.

are you not trying to imply that pac will beat marquez?? you did even mention how marquez will even fare against bradley isn't it? are you not giving clues of comparing the results thereof??

bradley's resume has nothing to do with this 4th fight. he can be better than anyone else if you wish to see like that but then again it doesnt guarantee anything that pac will be able to beat marquez. and bradley's technical skills is way to far compared to marquez.

Ok, if you really want to put emphasis on the rank of bradley as no. 8 P4P, still pac should have knocked him out because he did knocked out cotto who is a no 3 P4P back then. who is bradley compared to cotto??? 8)


We're not talking about rounds 10 to 12. Just shows how careless you are with your obsevations. The video I posted was focused on the earlier rounds and it showed Bradley scrambling for his footing after getting tagged by solid shots from Pacquiao. Oh and the judges were not unanimous in scoring rounds 10 to 12 for Bradley. Ford scored it 10-9 for Pacquiao. Remember that you didn't dispute the video. If Bradley could take Manny's punches and wasn't hurt, why did he refuse to engage afterwards?
Did I say that Pacquiao is guaranteed to beat Marquez? Pay attention to details. You on the other hand pointed out that Manny "will be dead meat this time". So who's making the guarantee?
You keep mentioning Manny's performance against Bradley yet you fail to argue the point of Marquez's bout against Serhiy Fedchenko. Ever heard of this guy? Yet Marquez was unable to knock him out. Marquez inflicted Juan Diaz's first defeat and the latter was recognized as perhaps the best lightweight in the world during that time. Who is Fedchenko compared to Diaz? And who is Fedchenko compared to Bradley? At least Bradley was recognized as the best junior welterweight in the world and ranked in the pound for pound listings. You talk of Manny's deterioration against Bradley, how about Marquez's inability to knock out the light punching Ukranian whose last fight was an eight rounder. Talk of tunnel vision. Could you imagine that? This Ukranian was involved in an eight round fight prior to his bout against Marquez and yet your Marquez was unable to knock this guy out. And you're saying that Marquez will finish off Manny. Recent performances that of Manny against Bradley and Marquez against Serhiy Fedchenko speak otherwise.


OMG. yeah I know that those are from earlier rounds and yeah manny tagged bradley with solid shots. what I am trying to point out in the last 10 to 12 rounds, bradley was still able to exchange punches with manny, meaning, the blows he received from earlier rounds, which you are pointing out that did a lot of damage, didn't matter. you keep on pointing out that bradley was hurt and I pointed out rounds 10 to 12 to challenge your observation and to prove it otherwise.

if you are not guaranteeing that manny will beat marquez, what's the point of bringing out that manny fought bradley which is a top 8 P4P and marquez fought an opponent which just came from 8 rounder fight?

to challenge you again on your analogy, who is likar ramos compared to mosley?? pacquiao and marquez fought this 2 and yes, dominated both of them. marquez did knock out likar but if you observe the fight likar just took the dive and never stood up. marquez new found skills was never tested. with this pac should be knocking out marquez as almost everyone predicted, but then again, manny struggled a lot with marquez, not mentioning that it was pacs comfortable weight. did the status of their opponents mattered??

oh and oh, check your facts also, juan diaz first defeat was with nate campbell. 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:25 pm 
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eyeopener wrote:
Emmanuel53 wrote:
eyeopener wrote:

putting a lot of hurt?? where? yes bradley was tagged many times but hurt? cmon. rounds 10 to 12 will tell you otherwise.

i'm very critical with his performance against bradley because it did really show his deterioration.

are you not trying to imply that pac will beat marquez?? you did even mention how marquez will even fare against bradley isn't it? are you not giving clues of comparing the results thereof??

bradley's resume has nothing to do with this 4th fight. he can be better than anyone else if you wish to see like that but then again it doesnt guarantee anything that pac will be able to beat marquez. and bradley's technical skills is way to far compared to marquez.

Ok, if you really want to put emphasis on the rank of bradley as no. 8 P4P, still pac should have knocked him out because he did knocked out cotto who is a no 3 P4P back then. who is bradley compared to cotto??? 8)


We're not talking about rounds 10 to 12. Just shows how careless you are with your obsevations. The video I posted was focused on the earlier rounds and it showed Bradley scrambling for his footing after getting tagged by solid shots from Pacquiao. Oh and the judges were not unanimous in scoring rounds 10 to 12 for Bradley. Ford scored it 10-9 for Pacquiao. Remember that you didn't dispute the video. If Bradley could take Manny's punches and wasn't hurt, why did he refuse to engage afterwards?
Did I say that Pacquiao is guaranteed to beat Marquez? Pay attention to details. You on the other hand pointed out that Manny "will be dead meat this time". So who's making the guarantee?
You keep mentioning Manny's performance against Bradley yet you fail to argue the point of Marquez's bout against Serhiy Fedchenko. Ever heard of this guy? Yet Marquez was unable to knock him out. Marquez inflicted Juan Diaz's first defeat and the latter was recognized as perhaps the best lightweight in the world during that time. Who is Fedchenko compared to Diaz? And who is Fedchenko compared to Bradley? At least Bradley was recognized as the best junior welterweight in the world and ranked in the pound for pound listings. You talk of Manny's deterioration against Bradley, how about Marquez's inability to knock out the light punching Ukranian whose last fight was an eight rounder. Talk of tunnel vision. Could you imagine that? This Ukranian was involved in an eight round fight prior to his bout against Marquez and yet your Marquez was unable to knock this guy out. And you're saying that Marquez will finish off Manny. Recent performances that of Manny against Bradley and Marquez against Serhiy Fedchenko speak otherwise.


Quote:
OMG. yeah I know that those are from earlier rounds and yeah manny tagged bradley with solid shots. what I am trying to point out in the last 10 to 12 rounds, bradley was still able to exchange punches with manny, meaning, the blows he received from earlier rounds, which you are pointing out that did a lot of damage, didn't matter. you keep on pointing out that bradley was hurt and I pointed out rounds 10 to 12 to challenge your observation and to prove it otherwise.

if you are not guaranteeing that manny will beat marquez, what's the point of bringing out that manny fought bradley which is a top 8 P4P and marquez fought an opponent which just came from 8 rounder fight?

to challenge you again on your analogy, who is likar ramos compared to mosley?? pacquiao and marquez fought this 2 and yes, dominated both of them. marquez did knock out likar but if you observe the fight likar just took the dive and never stood up. marquez new found skills was never tested. with this pac should be knocking out marquez as almost everyone predicted, but then again, manny struggled a lot with marquez, not mentioning that it was pacs comfortable weight. did the status of their opponents mattered??

oh and oh, check your facts also, juan diaz first defeat was with nate campbell. 8)

Good for you. You checked your facts this time and my bad this time around.
But you still don't get the point do you? If Marquez cannot knock out someone like Serhiy Fedchenko, how can you guarantee that he can finish off Pacquiao? And Pacquiao did hurt Bradley in the earlier rounds, that's why this guy was on survival mode afterwards. And boxers do recover during the fight after taking a beating due to their conditioning. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. was being dominated by Sergio Martinez but nearly knocked the latter out in the last round. After the fight, one of Chavez's eyes sported a big bruise and was nearly closed. Kirkland was down and badly hurt in the first round but amazingly recovered and stopped a weary Angulo who punched himself out. Oh and before I forget, Marquez was down three times in their first fight but was still able to salvage a draw against Pacquiao. A fighter's conditioning and training allows him to recover even if early on he got hurt during a fight. In the Bradley bout, Pacquiao took his foot off on the gas pedal in the latter rounds. Why? Because in his mind, and perhaps most everyone else watching the fight including the boxing panel , Harold Lederman most especially, the fight was already in the bag and Bradley's only chance was a knockout. Check out Lederman's scorecard 119-109 giving only one round , the tenth to Bradley. And this was shared by most of the sportswriters at ringside who submitted scores giving a huge majority of the rounds to Manny.
I don't see the point of your analogy between Likar and Mosley. First you mentioned Pacquiao's performance against Bradley, and now that you've been stumped because I mentioned Marquez's bout against Fedchenko, you try to muddle the issue by mentioning Likar. We're talking of Marquez's and Pacquiao's last bouts and these were against Fedchenko and Bradley respectively.
All three fights between Manny and Marquez were struggles. And precisely because of this, there is no absolute guarantee that either fighter will dominate or finish the other fighter off. And if the last bouts of Marquez and Manny were your barometer, then it was Manny who fought and dominated a much better opponent in Bradley although two of the judges saw it otherwise. Now, answer me, why can't Marquez knock out Fedchenko whose last fight was an 8 round unanimous decision win over someone named Laszlo Fazekas?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:59 am 
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sumbagay mo oi magdaog pamo trans; fight!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:41 am 
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Manny will be Luncheon Meat this time!! AK! AK! AK! :biglaugh:

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DREAM!! BELIEVE!! AND!! MULTIPLY!! OH YEAH!! XD


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:47 am 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
Good for you. You checked your facts this time and my bad this time around.
But you still don't get the point do you? If Marquez cannot knock out someone like Serhiy Fedchenko, how can you guarantee that he can finish off Pacquiao? And Pacquiao did hurt Bradley in the earlier rounds, that's why this guy was on survival mode afterwards. And boxers do recover during the fight after taking a beating due to their conditioning. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. was being dominated by Sergio Martinez but nearly knocked the latter out in the last round. After the fight, one of Chavez's eyes sported a big bruise and was nearly closed. Kirkland was down and badly hurt in the first round but amazingly recovered and stopped a weary Angulo who punched himself out. Oh and before I forget, Marquez was down three times in their first fight but was still able to salvage a draw against Pacquiao. A fighter's conditioning and training allows him to recover even if early on he got hurt during a fight. In the Bradley bout, Pacquiao took his foot off on the gas pedal in the latter rounds. Why? Because in his mind, and perhaps most everyone else watching the fight including the boxing panel , Harold Lederman most especially, the fight was already in the bag and Bradley's only chance was a knockout. Check out Lederman's scorecard 119-109 giving only one round , the tenth to Bradley. And this was shared by most of the sportswriters at ringside who submitted scores giving a huge majority of the rounds to Manny.
I don't see the point of your analogy between Likar and Mosley. First you mentioned Pacquiao's performance against Bradley, and now that you've been stumped because I mentioned Marquez's bout against Fedchenko, you try to muddle the issue by mentioning Likar. We're talking of Marquez's and Pacquiao's last bouts and these were against Fedchenko and Bradley respectively.
All three fights between Manny and Marquez were struggles. And precisely because of this, there is no absolute guarantee that either fighter will dominate or finish the other fighter off. And if the last bouts of Marquez and Manny were your barometer, then it was Manny who fought and dominated a much better opponent in Bradley although two of the judges saw it otherwise. Now, answer me, why can't Marquez knock out Fedchenko whose last fight was an 8 round unanimous decision win over someone named Laszlo Fazekas?


every fight is different. if marquez didn't finished of Fedchenko it doesn't mean he cannot dominate pacquiao anymore. i give pacquaio as an example, he was almost KTFO to nadal husein and nearly loss but dominated every big names out there after that.
how can you compare husein to cotto, margarito, mosley, barrera, morales, hatton dela hoya then? who is this hussein? the guarantee I am saying is pac is on his downside and doesn't really care anymore about boxing. he's more focus on other walks of life (politics, bible, etc) while marquez will always conditioned himself t prepare for pacquiao. the lack of focus will take toll against pacquaio.

I tried to put likar with mosley and the result of 3rd fight in the mix because you always point out the status of bradley against fedchenko. I want to show that previous opponents status cannot and will never have a factor to upcoming fights.

Sorry, I never seen bradley on a survival mode, but rather went to the strategy which pacquaio is not good at. it was seen against mosley and marquez 3. he doesn't know how to cut the ring.

pacquiao took off his foot in the gas pedal? i see it as more of lack of stamina and training. its only in the middle rounds that he only starts attacking within the 1 minute of every round. a sure sign that he is not the same as before. his footwork, body movements were gone.

yeah the results of 3 fights were close. but with the kind of focus they are showing will definitely spell the difference. and you what i am talking about.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:00 am 
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eyeopener wrote:
Emmanuel53 wrote:
Good for you. You checked your facts this time and my bad this time around.
But you still don't get the point do you? If Marquez cannot knock out someone like Serhiy Fedchenko, how can you guarantee that he can finish off Pacquiao? And Pacquiao did hurt Bradley in the earlier rounds, that's why this guy was on survival mode afterwards. And boxers do recover during the fight after taking a beating due to their conditioning. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. was being dominated by Sergio Martinez but nearly knocked the latter out in the last round. After the fight, one of Chavez's eyes sported a big bruise and was nearly closed. Kirkland was down and badly hurt in the first round but amazingly recovered and stopped a weary Angulo who punched himself out. Oh and before I forget, Marquez was down three times in their first fight but was still able to salvage a draw against Pacquiao. A fighter's conditioning and training allows him to recover even if early on he got hurt during a fight. In the Bradley bout, Pacquiao took his foot off on the gas pedal in the latter rounds. Why? Because in his mind, and perhaps most everyone else watching the fight including the boxing panel , Harold Lederman most especially, the fight was already in the bag and Bradley's only chance was a knockout. Check out Lederman's scorecard 119-109 giving only one round , the tenth to Bradley. And this was shared by most of the sportswriters at ringside who submitted scores giving a huge majority of the rounds to Manny.
I don't see the point of your analogy between Likar and Mosley. First you mentioned Pacquiao's performance against Bradley, and now that you've been stumped because I mentioned Marquez's bout against Fedchenko, you try to muddle the issue by mentioning Likar. We're talking of Marquez's and Pacquiao's last bouts and these were against Fedchenko and Bradley respectively.
All three fights between Manny and Marquez were struggles. And precisely because of this, there is no absolute guarantee that either fighter will dominate or finish the other fighter off. And if the last bouts of Marquez and Manny were your barometer, then it was Manny who fought and dominated a much better opponent in Bradley although two of the judges saw it otherwise. Now, answer me, why can't Marquez knock out Fedchenko whose last fight was an 8 round unanimous decision win over someone named Laszlo Fazekas?


every fight is different. if marquez didn't finished of Fedchenko it doesn't mean he cannot dominate pacquiao anymore. i give pacquaio as an example, he was almost KTFO to nadal husein and nearly loss but dominated every big names out there after that.
how can you compare husein to cotto, margarito, mosley, barrera, morales, hatton dela hoya then? who is this hussein? the guarantee I am saying is pac is on his downside and doesn't really care anymore about boxing. he's more focus on other walks of life (politics, bible, etc) while marquez will always conditioned himself t prepare for pacquiao. the lack of focus will take toll against pacquaio.

I tried to put likar with mosley and the result of 3rd fight in the mix because you always point out the status of bradley against fedchenko. I want to show that previous opponents status cannot and will never have a factor to upcoming fights.

Sorry, I never seen bradley on a survival mode, but rather went to the strategy which pacquaio is not good at. it was seen against mosley and marquez 3. he doesn't know how to cut the ring.

pacquiao took off his foot in the gas pedal? i see it as more of lack of stamina and training. its only in the middle rounds that he only starts attacking within the 1 minute of every round. a sure sign that he is not the same as before. his footwork, body movements were gone.

yeah the results of 3 fights were close. but with the kind of focus they are showing will definitely spell the difference. and you what i am talking about.


Again a contradiction on your part. Marquez never dominated Pacquiao, because in all three fights, it was a struggle. You contend that every fight is different and yet you illustrate Pacquiao's deterioration by citing the last rounds of the Bradley bout. Now that I am making an example of Marquez's last bout against Fedchenko you're trying to wiggle out of a predicament by saying that every fight is different. LOL . I am using the same line of reasoning that you are using. So I should also be allowed to rebut your argument in saying that every fight is different too in Manny's fight against Bradley.
If you have never seen Bradley in survival mode, I suggest you review the fight once again after Bradley took some solid shots from Manny in the early rounds. Don't tell me Mosley wasn't in survival mode. And Marquez wasn't dancing all over the ring like Bradley was. The Mexican was taking purposeful back steps not prancing all around the ring like Bradley was.
Oh and by the way, have you ever engaged anyone in a debate.
Why will the status of previous opponents never be a factor in future fights? Where have you been? A fighter might have an undefeated record, yet if all his previous opponents were patsies then why wouldn't it mattter. Just to illustrate. Recently an undefeated young Puerto Rican prospect by the name of Luis Orlando del Valle went up against veteran Vic Darchinyan. Darchinyan had been with the likes Abner Mares, Anselmo Moreno , Joseph Agbeko while del Valle has never fought anyone approaching the class of Darchinyan's opponents. The step up in class was too much for del Valle who was bruised and schooled by Darchinyan. Boom boom Bautista was undefeated prior to his bout against POnce de Leon but lasted only one round against his more seasoned opponent. So the status of previous opponents do matter. Are you really a boxing fan?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:41 am 
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JMM has to gamble,engage Manny toe to toe to KO the pacm,if not the outcome will thesame. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:10 am 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
eyeopener wrote:
Emmanuel53 wrote:
Good for you. You checked your facts this time and my bad this time around.
But you still don't get the point do you? If Marquez cannot knock out someone like Serhiy Fedchenko, how can you guarantee that he can finish off Pacquiao? And Pacquiao did hurt Bradley in the earlier rounds, that's why this guy was on survival mode afterwards. And boxers do recover during the fight after taking a beating due to their conditioning. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. was being dominated by Sergio Martinez but nearly knocked the latter out in the last round. After the fight, one of Chavez's eyes sported a big bruise and was nearly closed. Kirkland was down and badly hurt in the first round but amazingly recovered and stopped a weary Angulo who punched himself out. Oh and before I forget, Marquez was down three times in their first fight but was still able to salvage a draw against Pacquiao. A fighter's conditioning and training allows him to recover even if early on he got hurt during a fight. In the Bradley bout, Pacquiao took his foot off on the gas pedal in the latter rounds. Why? Because in his mind, and perhaps most everyone else watching the fight including the boxing panel , Harold Lederman most especially, the fight was already in the bag and Bradley's only chance was a knockout. Check out Lederman's scorecard 119-109 giving only one round , the tenth to Bradley. And this was shared by most of the sportswriters at ringside who submitted scores giving a huge majority of the rounds to Manny.
I don't see the point of your analogy between Likar and Mosley. First you mentioned Pacquiao's performance against Bradley, and now that you've been stumped because I mentioned Marquez's bout against Fedchenko, you try to muddle the issue by mentioning Likar. We're talking of Marquez's and Pacquiao's last bouts and these were against Fedchenko and Bradley respectively.
All three fights between Manny and Marquez were struggles. And precisely because of this, there is no absolute guarantee that either fighter will dominate or finish the other fighter off. And if the last bouts of Marquez and Manny were your barometer, then it was Manny who fought and dominated a much better opponent in Bradley although two of the judges saw it otherwise. Now, answer me, why can't Marquez knock out Fedchenko whose last fight was an 8 round unanimous decision win over someone named Laszlo Fazekas?


every fight is different. if marquez didn't finished of Fedchenko it doesn't mean he cannot dominate pacquiao anymore. i give pacquaio as an example, he was almost KTFO to nadal husein and nearly loss but dominated every big names out there after that.
how can you compare husein to cotto, margarito, mosley, barrera, morales, hatton dela hoya then? who is this hussein? the guarantee I am saying is pac is on his downside and doesn't really care anymore about boxing. he's more focus on other walks of life (politics, bible, etc) while marquez will always conditioned himself t prepare for pacquiao. the lack of focus will take toll against pacquaio.

I tried to put likar with mosley and the result of 3rd fight in the mix because you always point out the status of bradley against fedchenko. I want to show that previous opponents status cannot and will never have a factor to upcoming fights.

Sorry, I never seen bradley on a survival mode, but rather went to the strategy which pacquaio is not good at. it was seen against mosley and marquez 3. he doesn't know how to cut the ring.

pacquiao took off his foot in the gas pedal? i see it as more of lack of stamina and training. its only in the middle rounds that he only starts attacking within the 1 minute of every round. a sure sign that he is not the same as before. his footwork, body movements were gone.

yeah the results of 3 fights were close. but with the kind of focus they are showing will definitely spell the difference. and you what i am talking about.


Again a contradiction on your part. Marquez never dominated Pacquiao, because in all three fights, it was a struggle. You contend that every fight is different and yet you illustrate Pacquiao's deterioration by citing the last rounds of the Bradley bout. Now that I am making an example of Marquez's last bout against Fedchenko you're trying to wiggle out of a predicament by saying that every fight is different. LOL . I am using the same line of reasoning that you are using. So I should also be allowed to rebut your argument in saying that every fight is different too in Manny's fight against Bradley.
If you have never seen Bradley in survival mode, I suggest you review the fight once again after Bradley took some solid shots from Manny in the early rounds. Don't tell me Mosley wasn't in survival mode. And Marquez wasn't dancing all over the ring like Bradley was. The Mexican was taking purposeful back steps not prancing all around the ring like Bradley was.
Oh and by the way, have you ever engaged anyone in a debate.
Why will the status of previous opponents never be a factor in future fights? Where have you been? A fighter might have an undefeated record, yet if all his previous opponents were patsies then why wouldn't it mattter. Just to illustrate. Recently an undefeated young Puerto Rican prospect by the name of Luis Orlando del Valle went up against veteran Vic Darchinyan. Darchinyan had been with the likes Abner Mares, Anselmo Moreno , Joseph Agbeko while del Valle has never fought anyone approaching the class of Darchinyan's opponents. The step up in class was too much for del Valle who was bruised and schooled by Darchinyan. Boom boom Bautista was undefeated prior to his bout against POnce de Leon but lasted only one round against his more seasoned opponent. So the status of previous opponents do matter. Are you really a boxing fan?


Your view is more sensible and I agree with you. However, your exchanges with the kid will just go in circle and will never end. The best thing to do is to have a vote here of who among you that made a sensible opinion.

Count me in as one vote for you.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:02 am 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
eyeopener wrote:

every fight is different. if marquez didn't finished of Fedchenko it doesn't mean he cannot dominate pacquiao anymore. i give pacquaio as an example, he was almost KTFO to nadal husein and nearly loss but dominated every big names out there after that.
how can you compare husein to cotto, margarito, mosley, barrera, morales, hatton dela hoya then? who is this hussein? the guarantee I am saying is pac is on his downside and doesn't really care anymore about boxing. he's more focus on other walks of life (politics, bible, etc) while marquez will always conditioned himself t prepare for pacquiao. the lack of focus will take toll against pacquaio.

I tried to put likar with mosley and the result of 3rd fight in the mix because you always point out the status of bradley against fedchenko. I want to show that previous opponents status cannot and will never have a factor to upcoming fights.

Sorry, I never seen bradley on a survival mode, but rather went to the strategy which pacquaio is not good at. it was seen against mosley and marquez 3. he doesn't know how to cut the ring.

pacquiao took off his foot in the gas pedal? i see it as more of lack of stamina and training. its only in the middle rounds that he only starts attacking within the 1 minute of every round. a sure sign that he is not the same as before. his footwork, body movements were gone.

yeah the results of 3 fights were close. but with the kind of focus they are showing will definitely spell the difference. and you what i am talking about.


Again a contradiction on your part. Marquez never dominated Pacquiao, because in all three fights, it was a struggle. You contend that every fight is different and yet you illustrate Pacquiao's deterioration by citing the last rounds of the Bradley bout. Now that I am making an example of Marquez's last bout against Fedchenko you're trying to wiggle out of a predicament by saying that every fight is different. LOL . I am using the same line of reasoning that you are using. So I should also be allowed to rebut your argument in saying that every fight is different too in Manny's fight against Bradley.
If you have never seen Bradley in survival mode, I suggest you review the fight once again after Bradley took some solid shots from Manny in the early rounds. Don't tell me Mosley wasn't in survival mode. And Marquez wasn't dancing all over the ring like Bradley was. The Mexican was taking purposeful back steps not prancing all around the ring like Bradley was.
Oh and by the way, have you ever engaged anyone in a debate.
Why will the status of previous opponents never be a factor in future fights? Where have you been? A fighter might have an undefeated record, yet if all his previous opponents were patsies then why wouldn't it mattter. Just to illustrate. Recently an undefeated young Puerto Rican prospect by the name of Luis Orlando del Valle went up against veteran Vic Darchinyan. Darchinyan had been with the likes Abner Mares, Anselmo Moreno , Joseph Agbeko while del Valle has never fought anyone approaching the class of Darchinyan's opponents. The step up in class was too much for del Valle who was bruised and schooled by Darchinyan. Boom boom Bautista was undefeated prior to his bout against POnce de Leon but lasted only one round against his more seasoned opponent. So the status of previous opponents do matter. Are you really a boxing fan?



please understand first my comment never did i say that marquez dominated pacquiao, definitely I am referring to the 4th fight. yes every fight is really different but then deterioration will play a big factor in every fight. i've watch the fight many times and I will stick on my observation.

ok so mosley in survival mode but then pacman doesn't know how to cut the ring and he let mosley to survive the whole 12 rounds.

where have you been too? i would say the defeat of one fighter lies on how he trains and how his skills will fare against his opponent. darchi's skill is better than del valle and that's the cause of defeat by the latter. just take the example of darchi himself against nonito. darchi is a long time champion back then.. he seem to be untouchable in flyweight and defended his titles many times. and here comes nonito, who are the fighter he defeated prior his victory against darchi?? but did it matter?? no, because his skill is better that's why he became victorious. daniel ponce de leon too, a season fighter as you say. and here comes an undefeated juan manuel lopez. who are the fighters this guy beat? i can say they are also patsies. almost all his opponents were knocked out in the earlier rounds. then what happened to that season fighter you are talking about? he was also KTFO in the very 1st round. not to mention also pacquiao himself before his fight against ledwaba, barrera.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:06 am 
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TRUE PINOY wrote:

Your view is more sensible and I agree with you. However, your exchanges with the kid will just go in circle and will never end. The best thing to do is to have a vote here of who among you that made a sensible opinion.

Count me in as one vote for you.



you can have many votes as you wish, you're still a loser. :biglaugh::


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:01 pm 
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eyeopener wrote:
TRUE PINOY wrote:

Your view is more sensible and I agree with you. However, your exchanges with the kid will just go in circle and will never end. The best thing to do is to have a vote here of who among you that made a sensible opinion.

Count me in as one vote for you.



you can have many votes as you wish, you're still a loser. :biglaugh::



“I NEVER ARGUE WITH IMMATURE PEOPLE, THEY WILL DRAG YOU INTO THEIR LEVEL AND THEN BEAT YOU INTO THEIR PSYCHOTIC DREAM WITH THEIR EYES OPEN"...True Piinoy



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:59 pm 
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eyeopener wrote:
Emmanuel53 wrote:
eyeopener wrote:

every fight is different. if marquez didn't finished of Fedchenko it doesn't mean he cannot dominate pacquiao anymore. i give pacquaio as an example, he was almost KTFO to nadal husein and nearly loss but dominated every big names out there after that.
how can you compare husein to cotto, margarito, mosley, barrera, morales, hatton dela hoya then? who is this hussein? the guarantee I am saying is pac is on his downside and doesn't really care anymore about boxing. he's more focus on other walks of life (politics, bible, etc) while marquez will always conditioned himself t prepare for pacquiao. the lack of focus will take toll against pacquaio.

I tried to put likar with mosley and the result of 3rd fight in the mix because you always point out the status of bradley against fedchenko. I want to show that previous opponents status cannot and will never have a factor to upcoming fights.

Sorry, I never seen bradley on a survival mode, but rather went to the strategy which pacquaio is not good at. it was seen against mosley and marquez 3. he doesn't know how to cut the ring.

pacquiao took off his foot in the gas pedal? i see it as more of lack of stamina and training. its only in the middle rounds that he only starts attacking within the 1 minute of every round. a sure sign that he is not the same as before. his footwork, body movements were gone.

yeah the results of 3 fights were close. but with the kind of focus they are showing will definitely spell the difference. and you what i am talking about.


Again a contradiction on your part. Marquez never dominated Pacquiao, because in all three fights, it was a struggle. You contend that every fight is different and yet you illustrate Pacquiao's deterioration by citing the last rounds of the Bradley bout. Now that I am making an example of Marquez's last bout against Fedchenko you're trying to wiggle out of a predicament by saying that every fight is different. LOL . I am using the same line of reasoning that you are using. So I should also be allowed to rebut your argument in saying that every fight is different too in Manny's fight against Bradley.
If you have never seen Bradley in survival mode, I suggest you review the fight once again after Bradley took some solid shots from Manny in the early rounds. Don't tell me Mosley wasn't in survival mode. And Marquez wasn't dancing all over the ring like Bradley was. The Mexican was taking purposeful back steps not prancing all around the ring like Bradley was.
Oh and by the way, have you ever engaged anyone in a debate.
Why will the status of previous opponents never be a factor in future fights? Where have you been? A fighter might have an undefeated record, yet if all his previous opponents were patsies then why wouldn't it mattter. Just to illustrate. Recently an undefeated young Puerto Rican prospect by the name of Luis Orlando del Valle went up against veteran Vic Darchinyan. Darchinyan had been with the likes Abner Mares, Anselmo Moreno , Joseph Agbeko while del Valle has never fought anyone approaching the class of Darchinyan's opponents. The step up in class was too much for del Valle who was bruised and schooled by Darchinyan. Boom boom Bautista was undefeated prior to his bout against POnce de Leon but lasted only one round against his more seasoned opponent. So the status of previous opponents do matter. Are you really a boxing fan?



please understand first my comment never did i say that marquez dominated pacquiao, definitely I am referring to the 4th fight. yes every fight is really different but then deterioration will play a big factor in every fight. i've watch the fight many times and I will stick on my observation.

ok so mosley in survival mode but then pacman doesn't know how to cut the ring and he let mosley to survive the whole 12 rounds.

where have you been too? i would say the defeat of one fighter lies on how he trains and how his skills will fare against his opponent. darchi's skill is better than del valle and that's the cause of defeat by the latter. just take the example of darchi himself against nonito. darchi is a long time champion back then.. he seem to be untouchable in flyweight and defended his titles many times. and here comes nonito, who are the fighter he defeated prior his victory against darchi?? but did it matter?? no, because his skill is better that's why he became victorious. daniel ponce de leon too, a season fighter as you say. and here comes an undefeated juan manuel lopez. who are the fighters this guy beat? i can say they are also patsies. almost all his opponents were knocked out in the earlier rounds. then what happened to that season fighter you are talking about? he was also KTFO in the very 1st round. not to mention also pacquiao himself before his fight against ledwaba, barrera.



From where did you base your observation of Manny's deterioration, wasn't it from the Bradley fight where you kept on mentioning the 10th to the 12th rounds? And if you keep on referrring to that fight, why can't I make a reference to Marquez's bout against Fedchenko? If your line of reasoning was based on the Bradley bout, then your logic is flawed because the same applies to Marquez who can't even put Fedchenko down. So the deterioration is not only limited to Manny, the same also applies to Marquez.
Let me make again quote you on the following statement.

Quote:
I want to show that previous opponents status cannot and will never have a factor to upcoming fights.


Look at Del Valle's record and compare it to Darchinyan's. Look at Boom boom's record and compare it to Ponce de Leon. At this point Darchinyan's skill is better than Del Valle because the latter lacks seasoning inside the ring against better opposition. I could mention a host of other undefeated fighters whose records were padded by patsies and came up short when ranged against seasoned veterans. Much of the success of a fighter depends on how is matched and seasoned against opposition. Skills can be learned inside the ring. How many times have you heard boxing panels say that even if a young fighter is losing inside the ring, the valuable lessons he learns will serve him well in future fights. Watch the Del Valle bout against Dachinyan and you'll hear similar comments from the panel.. Donaire and Pacquiao are exceptional fighters of their era. Donaire also has a great amateur background winning amateur championships in the States. And a word on Juan Manuel Lopez. This same fighter lost to Orlando Salido ,39-11-2, who's been in with the likes of Juan Manuel Marquez, Yuriorkis Gamboa, Robert Guerero. John Riel Casimero was an undefeated fighter feasting on inferior opposition before two consecutive losses against HIrales and Mthalane. But it was a learning experience for this boxer who went on to capture IBF light flyweight title. Pacquiao himself was being taught a boxing lesson by Chatchai Sasakul before he stopped the latter in the eighth round. Tell me now that the status and quality of opposition doesn't matter. So where have you been? Just to emphasize further, the quality of opponents determine your rankings in the pound for pound ratings too. For every Pacquiao, Donaire and if you want, I can add Lopez to the mix, there are scores of undefeated fighters , and this includes Filipino boxers, who lost in their world bids because they were rushed too soon, or only looked good against inferior opposition.
Remember that you used the word "NEVER" in your statement.
'


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:30 am 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
From where did you base your observation of Manny's deterioration, wasn't it from the Bradley fight where you kept on mentioning the 10th to the 12th rounds? And if you keep on referrring to that fight, why can't I make a reference to Marquez's bout against Fedchenko? If your line of reasoning was based on the Bradley bout, then your logic is flawed because the same applies to Marquez who can't even put Fedchenko down. So the deterioration is not only limited to Manny, the same also applies to Marquez.


I based my observation since the margarito fight. from there until the fight against bradley, you would see the gradual deterioration. But the biggest part of that deterioration is with the fight against bradley. not just the 10 to 12 rounds but almost the whole fight itself. Leg cramps, not enough power, being tired easily, lost of speed and attacking only within the 1 minute mark from middle rounds onwards, these are all clear signs of deterioration. this is not usual for a manny pacquiao caliber. i know u know that. not to mention the outside factors he cannot avoid coming to the 4th fight. OTOH, marquez may not have finished fedchenko but he showed what he really does best and almost finished fedchenko. plus the fact that fedchenko lost only once in his career and it was just a majority decision loss. meaning fedchenko has the chin to with stand series of blows.


Emmanuel53 wrote:
Let me make again quote you on the following statement.

Quote:
I want to show that previous opponents status cannot and will never have a factor to upcoming fights.


Look at Del Valle's record and compare it to Darchinyan's. Look at Boom boom's record and compare it to Ponce de Leon. At this point Darchinyan's skill is better than Del Valle because the latter lacks seasoning inside the ring against better opposition. I could mention a host of other undefeated fighters whose records were padded by patsies and came up short when ranged against seasoned veterans. Much of the success of a fighter depends on how is matched and seasoned against opposition. Skills can be learned inside the ring. How many times have you heard boxing panels say that even if a young fighter is losing inside the ring, the valuable lessons he learns will serve him well in future fights. Watch the Del Valle bout against Dachinyan and you'll hear similar comments from the panel.. Donaire and Pacquiao are exceptional fighters of their era. Donaire also has a great amateur background winning amateur championships in the States. And a word on Juan Manuel Lopez. This same fighter lost to Orlando Salido ,39-11-2, who's been in with the likes of Juan Manuel Marquez, Yuriorkis Gamboa, Robert Guerero. John Riel Casimero was an undefeated fighter feasting on inferior opposition before two consecutive losses against HIrales and Mthalane. But it was a learning experience for this boxer who went on to capture IBF light flyweight title. Pacquiao himself was being taught a boxing lesson by Chatchai Sasakul before he stopped the latter in the eighth round. Tell me now that the status and quality of opposition doesn't matter. So where have you been? Just to emphasize further, the quality of opponents determine your rankings in the pound for pound ratings too. For every Pacquiao, Donaire and if you want, I can add Lopez to the mix, there are scores of undefeated fighters , and this includes Filipino boxers, who lost in their world bids because they were rushed too soon, or only looked good against inferior opposition.
Remember that you used the word "NEVER" in your statement.
'


I agree with the skill and thats what I always say, but telling that it was really based on previous opponents experience? that is just lame. you can ask mosley when he fought forrest, and saul alvarez. more so, you can ask khan when he fought danny garcia.


Quote:
Donaire and Pacquiao are exceptional fighters of their era.

wow, do you even already know back then that these two can become exceptional fighters? remember, we are talking about donaire and pacquaio who fought patsies before fighting the likes of darchi and ledwaba respectively. is it as if we are living in the past wherein they are still unknown.

boxers train hard to improve the skills he needs to have in every upcoming fights. a boxer wins due to hard training and studying what his opponent can do and not reviewing the fight with previous opponents just because they carry a better status. just like when salido fought lopez, he won because he study the capability of opponent and not reviewing his fights against JMM, gamboa and guerrero.

you always mention that status of previous fighters will matter, and I say it otherwise and yes "Never".


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