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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:34 am 
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jamsky wrote:
mauragon wrote:


floyds greatness is also tainted by avoiding the best in his career.

Floyds achievements is not purely a product of matchmaking. Infact he could have defeated fighters whom he avoided if he took the risk. He could have defeated Pacquiao, He could have defeated Williams and Martinez, and He could have defeated Margarito, Mosley and Cotto on thier primes. Floyd never took risk. He only fights if there is no risk involved and hes 100 percent sure that hes going to win. Hes the boss and the one who decides who he is going to fight.

Floyd has a great skills, his skills are excellent, and second to none. Its his heart that that separates him as an all time great. he is not a real warrior.

Lastly, i do believe De la hoya defeated him on that very close fight.



Yeah, but still a good match-making has something to do with his undefeated record.

Remember back in the days were he was not a PPV material yet, he's not the boss yet during that time. Remember when he fought Castillo, I thought he lost that fight and they had a rematch and Floyd won convincingly. And after that fight Floyds opponent are all tomato cans because he is under top rank during those years and Arum was protecting him. But now he is no longer with Arum thats why he can pick any fighter he wants to fight.


Agree with this... :)

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Boxers whom AXF ducked: Hamed, Morales, Tszyu, Margarito, Williams, Wright, Cintron, Pacquiao, Martinez, Trout, Golovkin, Lara


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:38 am 
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mauragon wrote:

Marquez is not floyd left over. Cotto fought Floyd at his comfortable weight 154 not at catch weight of 145.

Pacquiao fought De la hoya at 147 which made de la hoya an undernourished boxer. past his prime, cant pull the trigger and a floyds left over. Hatton also past his prime and floyds left over, so as mosley. Cotto is already a damaged good when pacquiao fought him and cotto was forced to drain himself at 145 instead of 147 or at 154. Clottey never fight. Diaz is a paper champion. Margarito never fought a year and came from a suspension. The fight also happened at 154.

The only credible fighter pacquiao fought is the feather fisted bradley, on his prime, young and undefeated. But, at 147 which is not bradleys home.

Im a filipino and a pacquiao fan, im just saying the truth that pactards cannot accept. Pacquiaos remarkable run is a product of great match making.


Marquez and Cotto are Pacquiao's leftovers, not Floyd's... :D

Still, Cotto is a more damaged good when he fought Mayweather and Pacquiao is not that comfortable at 147 and even at 154...

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Boxers whom AXF ducked: Hamed, Morales, Tszyu, Margarito, Williams, Wright, Cintron, Pacquiao, Martinez, Trout, Golovkin, Lara


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:44 am 
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[
l fight in the ring.

So going back to why I consider him GOAT after his KO loss, I say this because on not the way he demolished his opponents on his way up the ladder of boxing's greatness. I say this because of the way he carried himself in accepting a humiliating defeat which so many are claiming to be his downfall and clamoring for his retirement. I say this because of how he remained positive and still kept his faith in God despite of such event in his life. I say this because he gave credit to his conqueror and asked his fans to give credit to Marquez for his KO win.

And lastly, I say this because Manny cried in front of the whole world not because of the KO loss but because he feels that he disappointed us ... his fans


we all know what pac achieve fighter of the decade, 2-time fighter of the year, first boxer to have 5 consecutive years to have atleast 1 million ppv buys 2008-2012 first boxer to do it in histor of ppv boxing, and of course the record shattering mindblowing earthshaking 8 different boxing weight division champion, flyweight, bantamweight, superbantamweight, featherweight, super featherweight, lightweight, superlightweight, welterweight, super welterweight, the first boxer/fighter to do in the boxing history. records speaks louder than words,

im contented to say that he is one of the greatest, a sure hall of famer,

THE ONE of greatest of all time is manny "the destroyer" a.k.a pacman" pacquiao

can you dig it sucka!!!!!![/q


pactards to the max. No one is arguing pacmans achievements. The point here is does these achievements he accomplished against the best? without any advantage against his opponent like catchweights? does the belt and championship he won against legitimate, prime, worthy and top rated opponents not just a paper champion or a vacant belt?

The answer is a big NO!
Its a shame and an insult to our great great fighters like hagler, robinson, ali etc etc to put pacman ahead or greater with them as there were no catchweights that time and they were fighting the best, not just a paper champion and not only for the sake of getting a belt for the sake of setting a record.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:51 am 
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mauragon wrote:
[
l fight in the ring.

So going back to why I consider him GOAT after his KO loss, I say this because on not the way he demolished his opponents on his way up the ladder of boxing's greatness. I say this because of the way he carried himself in accepting a humiliating defeat which so many are claiming to be his downfall and clamoring for his retirement. I say this because of how he remained positive and still kept his faith in God despite of such event in his life. I say this because he gave credit to his conqueror and asked his fans to give credit to Marquez for his KO win.

And lastly, I say this because Manny cried in front of the whole world not because of the KO loss but because he feels that he disappointed us ... his fans


we all know what pac achieve fighter of the decade, 2-time fighter of the year, first boxer to have 5 consecutive years to have atleast 1 million ppv buys 2008-2012 first boxer to do it in histor of ppv boxing, and of course the record shattering mindblowing earthshaking 8 different boxing weight division champion, flyweight, bantamweight, superbantamweight, featherweight, super featherweight, lightweight, superlightweight, welterweight, super welterweight, the first boxer/fighter to do in the boxing history. records speaks louder than words,

im contented to say that he is one of the greatest, a sure hall of famer,

THE ONE of greatest of all time is manny "the destroyer" a.k.a pacman" pacquiao

can you dig it sucka!!!!!![/q


pactards to the max. No one is arguing pacmans achievements. The point here is does these achievements he accomplished against the best? without any advantage against his opponent like catchweights? does the belt and championship he won against legitimate, prime, worthy and top rated opponents not just a paper champion or a vacant belt?

The answer is a big NO!
Its a shame and an insult to our great great fighters like hagler, robinson, ali etc etc to put pacman ahead or greater with them as there were no catchweights that time and they were fighting the best, not just a paper champion and not only for the sake of getting a belt for the sake of setting a record.


:snoring:

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Boxers whom AXF ducked: Hamed, Morales, Tszyu, Margarito, Williams, Wright, Cintron, Pacquiao, Martinez, Trout, Golovkin, Lara


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:35 am 
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i agree with you TS 100%, bayaan mo lang yung mga kumokontra ganon talaga, anyway Merry Christmas to all paclanders!!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:50 am 
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besides pac's being one of the GOAT whatever they say pac has the record, pac has millions of dollars account, billions of business in the phil, (you should see his building apartments and establishments) has a california mansion, has many luxurious mansion in the philippines, has a private jet made in germany, has a yatch, has ferrari 450 spyder, has a porsche 911 gtr, has a hummer, has a tour bus in vegas, has millions worth of jewelries, and is helping others by giving 10 million pesos (who can give that?) and he all earn it, by giving his life in the ring its all worth for him,

to you crabs pachaters you can eat your broke asss out! :finger: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:46 am 
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I still rank Sugar Ray Robinson as the TOP GOAT, not one of the GOATs. Having said that, ranking boxers as to who truly is the GOAT is very subjective. You are comparing fighters from different era and from different weight divisions. For example, before the era of PPVs particular the 40s, 50s and 60s, fighting once or every couple months was the norm. This was dictated mainly by finding who really was the best in the division. (Now, boxers fight 2x a year and determined by their PPV attraction.) In the past, there was only one or may be 2 world boxing organizations ranking the fighters. (Now, dozens of alphabet organizations). Ranking fighters as GOAT should be based solely on records inside the ring. But this is not adhered to and a fighter's behavior outside the ring may help elevate or downgrade his ranking in the GOAT. For example, Ali's downright resistance to the Vietnam War (not a popular one) and refusing the draft, may have elevate him further in the rankings.

Your point that Pacquiao's rise from rags to riches and how he bounced back from defeats should be considered. IMHO, it may impress some boxing historians but probably not many. I believe Pac's style of fighting which endeared him to the hard core boxing fans may impress more boxing historians rather than his rags-to-riches story. But Pac's story is not finished, yet. So, time will tell.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:59 am 
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numero1 wrote:
one of the greatest maybe, but not the greatest.

I can live with that! At least, he is the Greatest Filipino Athlete of All time(GFAAT). I'll live with that one too. Happy holidays to all and have a prosperous new year. :celebrate:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:59 am 
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ok

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"A lie has speed, but truth has endurance."
"If one day speed kills me, don't cry, because I was smiling."


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:18 pm 
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8 in 8 wrote:
I still rank Sugar Ray Robinson as the TOP GOAT, not one of the GOATs. Having said that, ranking boxers as to who truly is the GOAT is very subjective. You are comparing fighters from different era and from different weight divisions. For example, before the era of PPVs particular the 40s, 50s and 60s, fighting once or every couple months was the norm. This was dictated mainly by finding who really was the best in the division. (Now, boxers fight 2x a year and determined by their PPV attraction.) In the past, there was only one or may be 2 world boxing organizations ranking the fighters. (Now, dozens of alphabet organizations). Ranking fighters as GOAT should be based solely on records inside the ring. But this is not adhered to and a fighter's behavior outside the ring may help elevate or downgrade his ranking in the GOAT. For example, Ali's downright resistance to the Vietnam War (not a popular one) and refusing the draft, may have elevate him further in the rankings.

Your point that Pacquiao's rise from rags to riches and how he bounced back from defeats should be considered. IMHO, it may impress some boxing historians but probably not many. I believe Pac's style of fighting which endeared him to the hard core boxing fans may impress more boxing historians rather than his rags-to-riches story. But Pac's story is not finished, yet. So, time will tell.


Pacs greatness would have been cemented if he fights the best in each weight class, Everyone knows that Diaz, Hatton, Cotto and Margarito are not the best. Theyre the weakest champion when pacquao faced them.

His failure to defeat Marquez convincingly might also affect his greatness.

Pacquiao is a sure hall of famer and is one of the ATGs. But to consider him as an GOAT is shame in the sport and is an insult to the ATGs greater and better than him. Only pactards consider pacquiao as the GOAT as they are not a real fan of the sport by heart and judgement. They are only pacquiao fans.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:19 pm 
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8 in 8 wrote:
I still rank Sugar Ray Robinson as the TOP GOAT, not one of the GOATs. Having said that, ranking boxers as to who truly is the GOAT is very subjective. You are comparing fighters from different era and from different weight divisions. For example, before the era of PPVs particular the 40s, 50s and 60s, fighting once or every couple months was the norm. This was dictated mainly by finding who really was the best in the division. (Now, boxers fight 2x a year and determined by their PPV attraction.) In the past, there was only one or may be 2 world boxing organizations ranking the fighters. (Now, dozens of alphabet organizations). Ranking fighters as GOAT should be based solely on records inside the ring. But this is not adhered to and a fighter's behavior outside the ring may help elevate or downgrade his ranking in the GOAT. For example, Ali's downright resistance to the Vietnam War (not a popular one) and refusing the draft, may have elevate him further in the rankings.

Your point that Pacquiao's rise from rags to riches and how he bounced back from defeats should be considered. IMHO, it may impress some boxing historians but probably not many. I believe Pac's style of fighting which endeared him to the hard core boxing fans may impress more boxing historians rather than his rags-to-riches story. But Pac's story is not finished, yet. So, time will tell.


Pacs greatness would have been cemented if he fights the best in each weight class, Everyone knows that Diaz, Hatton, Cotto and Margarito are not the best. Theyre the weakest champion when pacquao faced them.

His failure to defeat Marquez convincingly might also affect his greatness.

Pacquiao is a sure hall of famer and is one of the ATGs. But to consider him as the GOAT is a shame to the sport and is an insult to the ATGs greater and better than him. Only pactards consider pacquiao as the GOAT as they are not a real fan of the sport by heart and judgement. They are only pacquiao fans.

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the future is that it only
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:27 pm 
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mauragon wrote:
[
l fight in the ring.

So going back to why I consider him GOAT after his KO loss, I say this because on not the way he demolished his opponents on his way up the ladder of boxing's greatness. I say this because of the way he carried himself in accepting a humiliating defeat which so many are claiming to be his downfall and clamoring for his retirement. I say this because of how he remained positive and still kept his faith in God despite of such event in his life. I say this because he gave credit to his conqueror and asked his fans to give credit to Marquez for his KO win.

And lastly, I say this because Manny cried in front of the whole world not because of the KO loss but because he feels that he disappointed us ... his fans


we all know what pac achieve fighter of the decade, 2-time fighter of the year, first boxer to have 5 consecutive years to have atleast 1 million ppv buys 2008-2012 first boxer to do it in histor of ppv boxing, and of course the record shattering mindblowing earthshaking 8 different boxing weight division champion, flyweight, bantamweight, superbantamweight, featherweight, super featherweight, lightweight, superlightweight, welterweight, super welterweight, the first boxer/fighter to do in the boxing history. records speaks louder than words,

im contented to say that he is one of the greatest, a sure hall of famer,

THE ONE of greatest of all time is manny "the destroyer" a.k.a pacman" pacquiao

can you dig it sucka!!!!!![/q


pactards to the max. No one is arguing pacmans achievements. The point here is does these achievements he accomplished against the best? without any advantage against his opponent like catchweights? does the belt and championship he won against legitimate, prime, worthy and top rated opponents not just a paper champion or a vacant belt?

The answer is a big NO!
Its a shame and an insult to our great great fighters like hagler, robinson, ali etc etc to put pacman ahead or greater with them as there were no catchweights that time and they were fighting the best, not just a paper champion and not only for the sake of getting a belt for the sake of setting a record.



stfu! im not talking to you piece of bum retard owagon kang dako!

trans; dont reply to my post if it aint nothing to you, you BUM!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:21 pm 
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reynerose wrote:
xpuncher wrote:
To All Paclanders and Critics:

First of all, let me greet you with Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year.

The subject above is of course debatable but let me say this, as a fan of our very own Manny Pacquaio, I do not look alone at his successes in the ring but on how he pulled himself out from the pit of poverty. With very little formal education, he competed in the larger arena where we all find ourselves to be in but with his determination and focus he made it ... and made us proud to be Pinoy once again. He is and until now the only 8 Division champion in the world, a fete that has never been previously achieved by anyone in the sport of boxing.

He suffered his first TKO loss to Torrecampo but he bounced back, registered his second TKO loss from a Thailander named Singsurat and likewise bounced back. When he was beaten fair and square by Eric Morales in their first encounter, he rose again to the challenge and he avenged his loss in a very exciting fashion with a TKO in their 2nd fight.

Manny's KO loss with Marquez is of course different from his previous losses because in his latest fight, he was put to sleep. How come then that I am of the opinion (and I stand by it) that his KO loss elevated him as GOAT? To support my view, I am quoting below an inspirational quote about defeat from the late US President Theodore Roosevelt.

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." Theodore (Teddy) Roosevelt
[/color]
As we all may agree, in the Pacquiao vs Marquez IV, Manny promised an exciting fight and he delivered but in the process suffered a humiliating KO loss. If he were a selfish individual, he could have just boxed around and avoided putting himself in a great jeopardy and take home his millions. But Manny is Manny as we all know. He cares for the fans of boxing who pays hard-earned money to watch him either live or on PPVs so he did what he promised to deliver ... a real fight in the ring.

So going back to why I consider him GOAT after his KO loss, I say this because on not the way he demolished his opponents on his way up the ladder of boxing's greatness. I say this because of the way he carried himself in accepting a humiliating defeat which so many are claiming to be his downfall and clamoring for his retirement. I say this because of how he remained positive and still kept his faith in God despite of such event in his life. I say this because he gave credit to his conqueror and asked his fans to give credit to Marquez for his KO win.

And lastly, I say this because Manny cried in front of the whole world not because of the KO loss but because he feels that he disappointed us ... his fans in Pinas and all over the world.

God Bless Us All!



we all know what pac achieve fighter of the decade, 2-time fighter of the year, first boxer to have 5 consecutive years to have atleast 1 million ppv buys 2008-2012 first boxer to do it in history of ppv boxing, and of course the record shattering mindblowing earthshaking 8 different boxing weight division champion, flyweight, bantamweight, superbantamweight, featherweight, super featherweight, lightweight, superlightweight, welterweight, super welterweight, the first boxer/fighter to do in the boxing history. records speaks louder than words,

im contented to say that he is one of the greatest, a sure hall of famer,

THE ONE of greatest of all time is manny "the destroyer" a.k.a pacman" pacquiao

can you dig it sucka!!!!!!


Oh I can Dig it!! but the question is..can they dig it??


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Muhammad Ali had miserable losses but he is still considered The Greatest or one of them. being top pound-for-pound fighter is a solid show of greatness. How much more winning eight division titles which is unprecedented.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Quote:
we all know what pac achieve fighter of the decade, 2-time fighter of the year, first boxer to have 5

Pac was fighter of the year THREE times.
Frazier, Marciano and Holyfield won it 3 times as well.
Ali won it 5 times.


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