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Where will you rank Pacquiao as ATG?
1-3 79%  79%  [ 31 ]
4-6 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
7-10 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
11-15 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
16-20 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
21-25 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
26+ 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 39
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:57 pm 
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Romy Nabas wrote:
JoeyInCali wrote:
When Sugar Ray and Armstrong were fighting, there were only 8 world titles.
There were THOUSANDS of boxing gyms in the US.
Armatrong held 3 of the 8 titles one time.
And those were all lineal titles.
And he was robbed against Garcia at 160.
He defended the welter belt 17 times iirc.

Today you have several dozen titles.



and yet, even then, only pac managed to win 4 lineal titles from original 8 world titles
not even SRR


Armstrong would have if they did not rob him against Garcia that ended in a draw.
Pac did not win a lineal title at 135 against David Diaz.
He won a lineal title at 130 against Marquez.
His other lineal was also at 140.

There were no Jr divisions back in SRR and Armstrong's days.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:16 pm 
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Top 3 definitely.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:28 pm 
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JoeyInCali wrote:
When Sugar Ray and Armstrong were fighting, there were only 8 world titles.
There were THOUSANDS of boxing gyms in the US.
Armatrong held 3 of the 8 titles one time.
And those were all lineal titles.
And he was robbed against Garcia at 160.
He defended the welter belt 17 times iirc.

Today you have several dozen titles.


So what's your ranking for Pac Joey?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:23 pm 
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Mahirap din po kasi o di rin basta masusukat kung sino ang boxing GOAT..sa achievements ba? o sa popularity/famous ba?..at iba rin kasi ang boxing noong araw.. share ko lang po..naalala ko nung elementary pa ako meron boxing tv show noon sa pinas na ang host ay si the late joe cantada ang title noon kung di po ako nagkakamali ay KO (knockout) kung saan pinapalabas ang mga boxing fights na classic as in classic as old as early 30’s (parang may below pa ata)..duon ko napanood na merong laban na ang rounds ay umaabot ng 20 at higit pa..so isa eto sa isang example na kung gaano kahirap ang boxing noong araw (di ko naman po sinabi na mas magaan ang boxing ngaun…tingin ko lang mas mahirap noon). noong late 70’s na magsimula na ako manood ng boxing, ang championship fights noon ay hanggang round 15, nabago lang ung laban ng rounds into 12 nung dalawang sunod na namatay na boxer ung una ay si andy balaba na isang pinoy at ung ikalawa isang Korean boxer. Naging mahigpit din pati sa rules sa pagtigil ng laban…noon kahit naka-ilang bagsak ang boxer tuloy ang laban basta nakakatayo pa at parang kaya pang sumuntok…ngaun pag di ka makasuntok awatin ka na ng referee… at noon dalawa lang kilalang boxing organization WBA at WBC…ngaun marami ng boxing associations ...kaya pag nag world champion ang isang boxer noong araw ay talagang magaling. Sinasabi ko po eto magkaiba kasi ung panahon, may pagkakaiba at may nababago pati na rin sa style ng fights.. kaya pana-panahon din yan…kaya dapat siguro may tamang batayan o sukatan para malaman kung sino talaga ang boxing GOAT.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:52 pm 
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I wonder too what’s Joey’s ranking for Pac.
Because he was trying to impress that SRR and Armstrong deserved their ranking coz they fought in the era of orig 8 division?
Really, you cannot penalize today’s greats just coz they fought in modern-era of boxing?
Armstrong only held 3 titles simultaneously coz they allowed it then and it was some sort of promotional strategy for the little guy.

Let’s check Pac, SRR and Armstrong’s lineal to even the playing field.

PACQUIAO LINEAL TITLES

Flyweight (original 8 )
Featherweight (original 8 )
Super featherweight (tweener division)
Light welterweight (tweener division)
Welterweight (original 8 )

ARMSTRONG LINEAL TITLES

Featherweight (original 8 )
Lightweight (original 8 )
Welterweight (original 8 )

ROBINSON LINEAL TITLES

Welterweight (original 8 )
Middleweight (original 8 )

Just look at how Pac leaped from across weights winning 5 lineal including 3 from orig 8 divisions. You cannot just ignore and undermine the 2 tweener divisions, too.
Nobody has done this before and perhaps in foreseeable future. Pacquiao has simply “beat the man who beat the man” in literally HALF of the original 8 weights.
And we cannot sympathize either to Armstrong’s purported robbery vs. Filipino Garcia. Pacquiao, too had more than his share of these controversial decisions.
Sana pala Pacquiao challenged Cotto for the middleweight lineal (after beating Martinez) para todo na talaga to LOL


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:06 pm 
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rmagt_18 wrote:
Mahirap din po kasi o di rin basta masusukat kung sino ang boxing GOAT..sa achievements ba? o sa popularity/famous ba?..at iba rin kasi ang boxing noong araw.. share ko lang po..naalala ko nung elementary pa ako meron boxing tv show noon sa pinas na ang host ay si the late joe cantada ang title noon kung di po ako nagkakamali ay KO (knockout) kung saan pinapalabas ang mga boxing fights na classic as in classic as old as early 30’s (parang may below pa ata)..duon ko napanood na merong laban na ang rounds ay umaabot ng 20 at higit pa..so isa eto sa isang example na kung gaano kahirap ang boxing noong araw (di ko naman po sinabi na mas magaan ang boxing ngaun…tingin ko lang mas mahirap noon). noong late 70’s na magsimula na ako manood ng boxing, ang championship fights noon ay hanggang round 15, nabago lang ung laban ng rounds into 12 nung dalawang sunod na namatay na boxer ung una ay si andy balaba na isang pinoy at ung ikalawa isang Korean boxer. Naging mahigpit din pati sa rules sa pagtigil ng laban…noon kahit naka-ilang bagsak ang boxer tuloy ang laban basta nakakatayo pa at parang kaya pang sumuntok…ngaun pag di ka makasuntok awatin ka na ng referee… at noon dalawa lang kilalang boxing organization WBA at WBC…ngaun marami ng boxing associations ...kaya pag nag world champion ang isang boxer noong araw ay talagang magaling. Sinasabi ko po eto magkaiba kasi ung panahon, may pagkakaiba at may nababago pati na rin sa style ng fights.. kaya pana-panahon din yan…kaya dapat siguro may tamang batayan o sukatan para malaman kung sino talaga ang boxing GOAT.


Great point sir.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:21 am 
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Sargo wrote:
JoeyInCali wrote:
When Sugar Ray and Armstrong were fighting, there were only 8 world titles.
There were THOUSANDS of boxing gyms in the US.
Armatrong held 3 of the 8 titles one time.
And those were all lineal titles.
And he was robbed against Garcia at 160.
He defended the welter belt 17 times iirc.

Today you have several dozen titles.


So what's your ranking for Pac Joey?

Tough call.
First of all, being the best boxer does not make you the greatest automatically.
Using multiple titles as basis is a little tricky.
You also need to realize, NOBODY WON 4 TITLES until junior divisions plus SUPER middleweight came about in the 80's.
Hearns won his fourth againt Roldan at 168.
Leonard winning his 4th and 5th at a 168 with 175 belt on the line as well.

Floyd and Oscar won more belts than Pernell Whitaker ? Are they greater than Pea? I don't think so.
Oscar won phoney belts at 130 and 160. He should be ashamed in calling himself a 6-division champion.
But, that was announced whenever he fought after "beating" Sturm.
RJJ was definitely greater than Oscar during their era.
RJJ hardly lost ROUNDS let alone fights in his prime .
Y

I think you might as well just have a top 10 greatest ever . Maybe the top 5 would have a good argument in being number 1.
Pac cracks tops 5 because of historical impact and achievements.
That does not mean he's a better boxer than the others under him.
It makes him greater because of his historical impact and achievements.

I don't think Pac would have beat Sal Sanchez at 126, but Pac is the greater boxer.
I don't think Robinson would have beat RJJ at 160 but SRR is still the greater boxer .


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:06 am 
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JoeyInCali wrote:
Sargo wrote:
JoeyInCali wrote:
When Sugar Ray and Armstrong were fighting, there were only 8 world titles.
There were THOUSANDS of boxing gyms in the US.
Armatrong held 3 of the 8 titles one time.
And those were all lineal titles.
And he was robbed against Garcia at 160.
He defended the welter belt 17 times iirc.

Today you have several dozen titles.


So what's your ranking for Pac Joey?

Tough call.
First of all, being the best boxer does not make you the greatest automatically.
Using multiple titles as basis is a little tricky.
You also need to realize, NOBODY WON 4 TITLES until junior divisions plus SUPER middleweight came about in the 80's.
Hearns won his fourth againt Roldan at 168.
Leonard winning his 4th and 5th at a 168 with 175 belt on the line as well.

Floyd and Oscar won more belts than Pernell Whitaker ? Are they greater than Pea? I don't think so.
Oscar won phoney belts at 130 and 160. He should be ashamed in calling himself a 6-division champion.
But, that was announced whenever he fought after "beating" Sturm.
RJJ was definitely greater than Oscar during their era.
RJJ hardly lost ROUNDS let alone fights in his prime .
Y

I think you might as well just have a top 10 greatest ever . Maybe the top 5 would have a good argument in being number 1.
Pac cracks tops 5 because of historical impact and achievements.
That does not mean he's a better boxer than the others under him.
It makes him greater because of his historical impact and achievements.

I don't think Pac would have beat Sal Sanchez at 126, but Pac is the greater boxer.
I don't think Robinson would have beat RJJ at 160 but SRR is still the greater boxer .


Amazing points!!! Idol.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:01 am 
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Duncan wrote:
Pac to date has beaten 22 world champs (former, current or future champs at diff. weights).
SRR has only defeated 16 world champs.

"PACQUIAO HAS DEFEATED 22 WORLD CHAMPIONS"

http://philboxing.com/news/story-146073.html


16 world champions during 8-division era. One Welterweight, one Middleweight. No freakiin' Jr. Welter or Middle.
Manny beat 22 world champions in the period of 17 division classes and more or less 67 title belts.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:23 am 
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Junorz wrote:
Duncan wrote:
Pac to date has beaten 22 world champs (former, current or future champs at diff. weights).
SRR has only defeated 16 world champs.

"PACQUIAO HAS DEFEATED 22 WORLD CHAMPIONS"

http://philboxing.com/news/story-146073.html


16 world champions during 8-division era. One Welterweight, one Middleweight. No freakiin' Jr. Welter or Middle.
Manny beat 22 world champions in the period of 17 division classes and more or less 67 title belts.


So where do you rank pac on your list mang Junorz?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:55 am 
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<-lokim-> wrote:
Junorz wrote:
Duncan wrote:
Pac to date has beaten 22 world champs (former, current or future champs at diff. weights).
SRR has only defeated 16 world champs.

"PACQUIAO HAS DEFEATED 22 WORLD CHAMPIONS"

http://philboxing.com/news/story-146073.html


16 world champions during 8-division era. One Welterweight, one Middleweight. No freakiin' Jr. Welter or Middle.
Manny beat 22 world champions in the period of 17 division classes and more or less 67 title belts.


So where do you rank pac on your list mang Junorz?


You will never get a good answer to that in this forum. Try other Boxing groups and forums with multi racial members and you will get the fans consensus. Top 30, Top 25, Top 15 and those who say Top 10, Top 5 or GOAT will get the fattest insults known to man and you could almost hear their sneer. One time, in an exclusive boxing group composed of less than 4k members dominated by boxing snobs with Nostalgia Syndrome (modern fighters are nothing compared to old time greats and boxing's golden era). There was a topic that compared Duran and Pacquiao's legacy. of 30 early replies, 25 chose Duran (half of those said it's not even close). 5 were labeled Pactards. In the world outside, whether motivated by racial or intellectual superiority, they don't see it like we do. But when one brave poster stood up to them with facts, records and comparative accomplishments...there was a long silence that you could almost hear egos bursting in another side of the globe. Next day, that post was taken down by the Admins for no reason at all.

So here's what i think. The answer becomes clear only 20 to 30 years from now. After 8 or 10, Broner and Thurman being high potential, have been formally enshrined to Hall of Fame. After a few exceptional fighters in the future would dare to duplicate his feats but fail. When his records remain unbroken. But the biggest hurdle to that recognition is not time but his fans, The Pactards who up to now are the most hated and annoying fans in boxing community. When Pacquiao retires, then the countdown will start. As to my personal ranking? No matter where they put Duran, Sweat Pea or Leonard, I'll have Manny ranked over them but i'll probably wait two more decades, if im still alive, to see where he measures up with Robinson, Ali and Armstrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:57 pm 
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Precisely what this thread is trying to make an opinion of, where would you rank Pac in the All-Time Greatest (ATG) list, not in the The Best Ever (TBE). There’s no way we could find out or opine if Pac can beat Sanchez at featherweight, Duran at lightweight, or any of the top welters in the 80s. We’re not into imaginary fights like Pac vs. Armstrong - pull that plug, we don’t even care on ODLH or RJJ much less on PBF. Although I would surmise, being a Pactard myself ever since he demolished a prime Barrera (yes that “Michael Jordan of featherweights” who just schooled Hamed, toyed with Tapia and cooled off Morales - when everybody predicted Pac has no chance) that Pac can make those fights really exciting and we always believe!

Just 24 years of prize fighting and still on top of his game even at age 40 having leaped from across weights in half of the original 8. Of course, Pac might not be the BEST in terms of skills (again, we’re not into “greater means better” debate), but where could he be in the GOAT discussion with all his achievements - in terms of historical significance (the 5 lineal & 8 division titles), mainstream appeal (only Ali is comparable without the braggadocio), in-ring performance (heart and panache).

When this is over, and many years or decades from now when people try to remember the good ol' days from Armstrong, Louis, Robinson to Ali, to the 80s of Duran and Sugar Ray and 90s of Roy Jones and Whitaker, they get to check those electrifying fights of this lil guy who speaks lil English from a poor, lil country who transcends boxing to the next millennium as a throwback fighter from the last. And that is the GOAT for me and call me a Pactard.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:41 am 
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It's Like Max Kellerman stated.

You may find a boxer that cleaned our Featherweight better than Manny did or even at Welterweight or Bantamweight ect...

But to do what Manny did...To Start from Flyweight and continually win Titles up to Jr. Middleweight is just unheard of in the Modern ERA and it might take another Hundred years to see another do it again....If EVER.

Most of us never Saw Henry Armstrong fight....or Sugar Ray Robinson fight....

But for sure, No Living Boxer today is going to be able to equal what Manny has done.

That in itself demonstrates how Special and Unique Manny has been to Boxing.

Boxing Fans in the last 20 years have been spoiled to witness the Epic Boxing Career of Manny Pacquiao.....

And Like KING LEONIDAS and the Brave 300, His Exploits will be discussed and marveled at for Centuries....


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:33 am 
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I rank him no.1 all time great (not because I'am Pinoy) but because he's in our generation 8) We are lucky to witness greatness. Championship in 8 different weight class is a tremendous feat (it can never be duplicated I think). Fighting as as welter even if he's not a true welterweight (and still fighting @ the highest level @ 40 yrs old, currently the oldest welterweight champ in history). If others disagree, I'll be OK at 2nd ATG. If still cannot be accepted, I'm OK @ #3. The resume shows it all! 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:09 pm 
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imho 1-5 ATG. what is undebatable is he is the Greatest and the very best boxer of my generation contrary to PBFs claim.

PBFs win over MP and being undefeated doesnt make him rank above MP on ATGs claim.

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