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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:27 am 
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when sugar shane put his 154-lb titles on the line for the first time in 2004 against winky wright (which was after he beat oscar the second time) he was installed as a huge favorite by odds-makers. however, instead of establishing his dominance in the division, he was the one who got thoroughly dominated by the light-punching winky wright.

in the end, no one said shane was the lesser fighter. winky was simply too big and too good defensively for someone who came up all the way from lightweight (135 lbs).

i am in no way equating manny pacquiao to shane mosley because in the list of all-time greats, right now there is no comparison. instead, i would like you to consider a few glaring similarities between pacquiao-clottey and mosley-wright six years ago, namely:

-the smaller guy is an offensive-minded boxer-puncher (though obviously differing in styles)
-the smaller guy has quicker hands and feet
-the bigger guy is technically proficient and excellent defensively
-the bigger guy, who in both cases is the challenger, is a huge underdog and has nothing to lose
-the bigger guy is the smaller puncher (which might have been the pitfall of past opponents who thought they could knock manny out)
-both guys are in their prime

let's all pray that this fight doesn't turn out the same way mosley-wright did. if it does happen *knocks on wood* and history repeats itself, be sad but don't be too surprised.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:37 am 
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TS:

Please delete your post. It scares me. I was thinking along the same lines. Please delete your post so it does not bring bad luck.

I still pick Pacquiao to win in 3 even though the Mosley/Wright analogy is in the back of my head. Please delete your jinx post.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:42 am 
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Flash Jackson wrote:
TS:

Please delete your post. It scares me. I was thinking along the same lines. Please delete your post so it does not bring bad luck.

I still pick Pacquiao to win in 3 even though the Mosley/Wright analogy is in the back of my head. Please delete your jinx post.


just look at it this way: if manny wins this then his victory will be sweeter and the feat all the more remarkable if people recognize how big of a challenge this really is, and i truly believe that it is a huge challenge. history is kinda against him on this one, just because an eerily similar scenario has taken place in the past and his counterpart lost. he'll be breaking the mold again if he wins this one.


Last edited by Pilosopong Tado on Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:43 am 
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Pilosopong Tado wrote:
when sugar shane put his 154-lb titles on the line for the first time in 2004 against winky wright (which was after he beat oscar the second time) he was installed as a huge favorite by odds-makers. however, instead of establishing his dominance in the division, he was the one who got thoroughly dominated by the light-punching winky wright.

in the end, no one said shane was the lesser fighter. winky was simply too big and too good defensively for someone who came up all the way from lightweight (135 lbs).

i am in no way equating manny pacquiao to shane mosley because in the list of all-time greats, right now there is no comparison. instead, i would like you to consider a few glaring similarities between pacquiao-clottey and mosley-wright six years ago, namely:

-the smaller guy is an offensive-minded boxer-puncher (though obviously differing in styles)
-the bigger guy is technically proficient and excellent defensively
-the challenger is a huge underdog and has nothing to lose
-the bigger guy is the smaller puncher (which might have been the pitfall of past opponents who thought they could knock manny out)

let's all pray that this fight doesn't turn out the same way mosley-wright did. if it does happen *knocks on wood* be sad, but don't be too surprised.


it could be or it could be not. I agree on your first 3 comparisons both are offensive minded and have equally respectable hand speed but the difference lies on their foot work. shane's footwork is just average as compared to manny. on the 4th comparison, I think clottey will also do the same as what other opponents of manny did. he and his coach said that they are going to knock out pacquiao.

I will not be surprise if that will happen. both fighters prepared well for this fight. clottey is a decent welter and they will be fighting at his natural weight. while manny will try his first true welterweight fight. I just hope manny will still pull another win over clottey.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:55 am 
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sh*t I thought you meant the Floyd-Mosley fight.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:02 am 
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Pac and Shane are quite different.

Shane just stands in front of his opponents and throws lots of punches. Pac on the other hand moves a lot and throws his punches from many different angles. IMHO, it's almost impossible to effectively block Pac's punches as they come from so many angles, and they come in very quickly.

IMHO, Clottey will have to sacrifice his offense just for him to avoid getting seriously hurt... He'll probably end up like MAB and D. Diaz if that happens... He won't have so many chances to attack as he'll be too occupied defending himself...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:12 am 
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Indeed, Clottey's a true challenge for Pacquiao than what most people think. But still, Pacquiao's skills, speed and work rate will overwhelm Clottey until the referee stops the fight in 7th.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:00 am 
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.


Last edited by Pilosopong Tado on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:09 am 
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Uchiha_Nivri wrote:
IMHO, Clottey will have to sacrifice his offense just for him to avoid getting seriously hurt... He'll probably end up like MAB and D. Diaz if that happens... He won't have so many chances to attack as he'll be too occupied defending himself...


i guess there's some merit in what you're saying since barerra and diaz both tried to use the clam shell defense when manny was putting the hurt on them, but let me tell you where your comparison falters:

sure, MAB was a fine technician, but he was never a defensive fighter in his prime. on the contrary, he was always the one bullying his opponent and taking the fight to him, even employing dirty tactics to psyche the other guy out. and david diaz, as we all know, isn't really the fastest gun in the west, well, yeah, that's manny, but the point is, diaz is a flat-footed brawler, and lets be frank here, he's effing slow. the fight against manny was really the only time he placed an emphasis on defense, and the result was that he got reduced to a sitting clam and manny deftly split him apart.

meanwhile, joshua clottey has carved out a career and risen the welterweight rankings by blocking punches and frustrating his opponents -- much like winky wright in his prime. that's his game, and he's pretty darn good at it. unlike the plodding brawler diaz, clottey is more of a finesse fighter, a defensive mastermind who throws beautiful combinations and lands a high percentage of his power shots. also, you're horribly mistaken if you think clottey is slow.

like manny's last victim, miguel cotto, joshua has great timing and can put together quick, well-placed, combinations. however, compared to cotto, who is a strong, heavy-handed puncher but drives at a single speed from the first to the last second of every round, clottey is a much more dynamic puncher who explodes with his leads. this facet of his game was clearly manifest in his TD win against judah a few years back.

lastly, what clottey has that barerra, cotto, and the always-in-your-grill diaz didn't is height (don't even bother mentioning the walking corpse that was dela hoya). this handy natural advantage, on top of his impregnable defensive stance will make it hard for manny to place solid, knock-out shots on him. as for body shots, clottey showed against cotto that he has a great defense for those as well. cotto is, after all, the most ferocious body puncher in the game right now.

that said, i think a knockout either way is highly unlikely. in fact, i'd be more surprised if manny knocks him out than i would be if clottey ekes out a decision. don't get me wrong, i'm still picking manny to win by UD, but despite freddie's apparent clairvoyance, i just don't see a knockout happening.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:22 am 
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also, take a look at how clottey and cotto did against margarito. clottey had a record 1700 punches thrown at him and blocked around 1400. meanwhile, margo didn't throw nearly as much against cotto yet the latter was a bloody mess and was stopped in the 11th round. and take note: cotto was backpedaling the entire fight.

this tells you two things: (1) clottey has way better defense than cotto, and (2) clottey has a better chin than cotto.


now if it took manny 11+ rounds to stop cotto (and cotto probably would've been able to survive another two minutes if bayless hadn't stopped it), then what makes you think he'll be able to take clottey out when the latter is much more adept defensively than the bombed out "boricua bomber"?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:33 am 
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Light Heavyweight

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:34 pm
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Pilosopong Tado wrote:
when sugar shane put his 154-lb titles on the line for the first time in 2004 against winky wright (which was after he beat oscar the second time) he was installed as a huge favorite by odds-makers. however, instead of establishing his dominance in the division, he was the one who got thoroughly dominated by the light-punching winky wright.

in the end, no one said shane was the lesser fighter. winky was simply too big and too good defensively for someone who came up all the way from lightweight (135 lbs).

i am in no way equating manny pacquiao to shane mosley because in the list of all-time greats, right now there is no comparison. instead, i would like you to consider a few glaring similarities between pacquiao-clottey and mosley-wright six years ago, namely:

-the smaller guy is an offensive-minded boxer-puncher (though obviously differing in styles)
-the smaller guy has quicker hands and feet
-the bigger guy is technically proficient and excellent defensively
-the bigger guy, who in both cases is the challenger, is a huge underdog and has nothing to lose
-the bigger guy is the smaller puncher (which might have been the pitfall of past opponents who thought they could knock manny out)
-both guys are in their prime

let's all pray that this fight doesn't turn out the same way mosley-wright did. if it does happen *knocks on wood* and history repeats itself, be sad but don't be too surprised.

No, it,s not. Why? We see the cotto vs clottey and PACMAN vs cotto. We can have a good idea and we can say that it is unlikely to happen. And another point is that Winky is also quick... Mosley is quick but Winky can cope with Mosley's quickness. Now, compare PACMA's quickness against cotto and cotto against clottey.....


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:45 am 
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brookash wrote:
No, it,s not. Why? We see the cotto vs clottey and PACMAN vs cotto. We can have a good idea and we can say that it is unlikely to happen. And another point is that Winky is also quick... Mosley is quick but Winky can cope with Mosley's quickness. Now, compare PACMA's quickness against cotto and cotto against clottey.....


styles makes fights, and the reason i made this comparison is because the styles were roughly similar, though obviously not entirely the same.

i see that you're going with the "pac>cotto; cotto>clottey; therefore pac>clottey argument". i don't wanna have to respond to this again, so to learn more about how "styles make fights," kindly visit this thread >> http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=164180&hilit=


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:50 am 
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btw, clottey has shown in the past that he can cope with speed. can he cope with manny's? we don't know yet, but by no means can clottey be considered slow. if you've only seen the cotto fight, then you haven't seen half of what the Ghanaian can do.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:36 am 
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Manny just needs to stick to the game plan. He was most disciplined with ODLH I think. Because he respected ODLH's power. He was cocky with Cotto, wanting to know if he could take Cotto's power. Cost him a busted eardrum, but also gave him confidence which may actually backfire. He was disciplined with Oscar and yet was still exciting. Tha's all he needs to do with Clottey.

Mosley does not have the movements, footwork of Manny.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:35 am 
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Sargo wrote:
Manny just needs to stick to the game plan. He was most disciplined with ODLH I think. Because he respected ODLH's power. He was cocky with Cotto, wanting to know if he could take Cotto's power. Cost him a busted eardrum, but also gave him confidence which may actually backfire. He was disciplined with Oscar and yet was still exciting. Tha's all he needs to do with Clottey.

Mosley does not have the movements, footwork of Manny.


i absolutely agree with everything you said.

i just hope manny pays close attention to clottey's head. he's been able to cut his last two opponents (cotto and judah) with it.


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