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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:16 pm 
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reigncourts wrote:
"Life is how you perceive reality." or sometimes Reality or Truth Hurts?
We already agreed on the truth that catchweights titles are legitimate. Are you suggesting then I stop answering anymore questions? I've been trying to do that if you noticed.


Don't play it like a saint...In your intro, you pasted the transcripts of our previous arguments. Look at your 3rd post, my name was littered all over it. Hence, you intention was clear. You were inviting questions and arguments, mostly at my expense.


reigncourts wrote:
i can't imagine how it could possibly hurt anyone here if this fight were to enhance our hero's legacy. just being realistic.
What's the problem then. I'll stop answering questions when nobody asks them insistently and tauntingly I just can ignore them.


After begging for ceasefire, you instigated another one with your monologue rampage by blaming me for prompting you to make this thread.

Wag mong ipalabas na aping api ka dahil talagang mahilig kang makipagdebate pero wala namang ibubuga. Baluktot na ang mga rason, binibigyan pa ng sariling definition ang mga nakasulat sa libro.

As you can see, a lot of pro Pacquiao vs. Margarito fans here see it the same way you do but for different reasons. Most of them would just like to watch Manny put on a good show come November. Minsan nga, naive pa ang outlook nila dito in terms of legacy. AT LEAST, they are not pretending to know beyond their means. In stark contrast, you're on a rampant crusade from one thread to another and yet, puro contradiction, kapalpakan at hindi kayang panindigan mga pinagsasabi mo. Hindi ka pa umaamin kahit lubog na ang barko mo.

Maybe it's true, you really live in a fantasy world of your own.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:41 pm 
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helven wrote:
reigncourts wrote:
"Life is how you perceive reality." or sometimes Reality or Truth Hurts?
We already agreed on the truth that catchweights titles are legitimate. Are you suggesting then I stop answering anymore questions? I've been trying to do that if you noticed.


helven:
Don't play it like a saint...In your intro, you pasted the transcripts of our previous arguments. Look at your 3rd post, my name was littered all over it. Hence, you intention was clear. You were inviting questions and arguments, mostly at my expense.


reigncourts wrote:
i can't imagine how it could possibly hurt anyone here if this fight were to enhance our hero's legacy. just being realistic.
What's the problem then. I'll stop answering questions when nobody asks them insistently and tauntingly I just can't ignore them.


helven:
After begging for ceasefire, you instigated another one with your monologue rampage by blaming me for prompting you to make this thread.

Wag mong ipalabas na aping api ka dahil talagang mahilig kang makipagdebate pero wala namang ibubuga. Baluktot na ang mga rason, binibigyan pa ng sariling definition ang mga nakasulat sa libro.

As you can see, a lot of pro Pacquiao vs. Margarito fans here see it the same way you do but for different reasons. Most of them would just like to watch Manny put on a good show come November. Minsan nga, naive pa ang outlook nila dito in terms of legacy. AT LEAST, they are not pretending to know beyond their means. In stark contrast, you're on a rampant crusade from one thread to another and yet, puro contradiction, kapalpakan at hindi kayang panindigan mga pinagsasabi mo. Hindi ka pa umaamin kahit lubog na ang barko mo.

Maybe it's true, you really live in a fantasy world of your own.


reigncourts:
First a minor correction is I only made the highlighted statement in response to the one on top.
After finally agreeing that an 8th title won with a catchweight is legitimate, I wanted to stop it there but Batman would still badger me with questions making me explain supposedly mistakes in the conduct of the debate. But I made myself clear that I want to limit debates only based on facts and not opinions.
Trans: Paano mo naman nahulaan na ikaw ang sinasabihan kong ayaw ng sagutin? May sinabi ba akong Robin? Kung lubog na ang barko ko bakit nagkasundo tayo sa catchweight issue na yun lang naman ang pinapaamin ko sa inyo? Baligtad yata ang nangyari. Dapat ako lang ang nakaligtas sa lumubog na barko ni Batman at Robin. Di ba? :D

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I defend PAC on OSDT and Catchweight Issues; Not his Traditional Politics and Religious Exploits.

"Marcos, Hitler, Diktador, TUTA. Patalsikin ang bangkay ni Marcos sa LNMB". PATALSIKIN!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:33 pm 
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reigncourts wrote:
Grand Inquisitor:
i'm not really a fan of lockdowns. i just feel sorry for reigncourts. he's trying to force people to see his own version of reality, but all he's managed to do is make a clown of himself. maybe we should stop debating with him, and just leave him in his wonderland.

reigncourts reply:
In short, a Grand Exit for the Batman. The ALAMO’s exit gates are always open to those who can’t stand the Truth.



I don't really want to contribute any further to the delusions of a shell shocked Penguin. Right now he's an endangered species. However, if need be, he can always pour his heart out and vent all that angst to liberate him from that prison which engulfs his mind. Truth be told, he needs this release to free him from this stupor.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Page 25 and still counting.. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
My simple answer: "It Will", so much with the brouhahas.. :peace:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:44 am 
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After 2 days of training, Pacquiao resumes congressional duties
On the third day, Manny Pacquiao rested.

The Filipino boxing superstar opted to skip training Wednesday after sweating it out for two straight days at the Elorde gym in Quezon City.
Read more..@
http://www.sportspilipinas.info/2010/09 ... quiao.html


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:18 am 
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I have mixed feelings about Manny fighting Margo...I have more feelings against him fighting Margo than for him fighting Margo...but I do admit that strictly from a PPV-business point of view this is probably a better option than some other choices. The next round of negotiations with Floyd are not going to be over drug testing...it's going to be over PPV numbers and purse splits. So I am hoping that this fight is close to the 1.4 million of Floyd's last fight...but is this even possible? I did say the word "hope" and not "expect".

On another note: I once has a disagreement with Helven over a boxing issue that we debated a bit about. I don't even remember the full details...but I do remember he was most civil and respectable with me. Plus...in the end he was right and I was wrong (not a big surprise since my boxing knowledge is limited). I would like to see this level of negative passion from all sides end. Please let's just agree to disagree...and move on.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:30 am 
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LordShades wrote:
I have mixed feelings about Manny fighting Margo...I have more feelings against him fighting Margo than for him fighting Margo...but I do admit that strictly from a PPV-business point of view this is probably a better option than some other choices. The next round of negotiations with Floyd are not going to be over drug testing...it's going to be over PPV numbers and purse splits. So I am hoping that this fight is close to the 1.4 million of Floyd's last fight...but is this even possible? I did say the word "hope" and not "expect".

On another note: I once has a disagreement with Helven over a boxing issue that we debated a bit about. I don't even remember the full details...but I do remember he was most civil and respectable with me. Plus...in the end he was right and I was wrong (not a big surprise since my boxing knowledge is limited). I would like to see this level of negative passion from all sides end. Please let's just agree to disagree...and move on.



Right man, you couldn't have said it better.

Hey Reigncourts, let's kiss and make up. :)

:peace:




Sincerely yours,

Robin

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:33 am 
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:chainsaw: :bounce:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:43 am 
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helven wrote:
LordShades wrote:
I have mixed feelings about Manny fighting Margo...I have more feelings against him fighting Margo than for him fighting Margo...but I do admit that strictly from a PPV-business point of view this is probably a better option than some other choices. The next round of negotiations with Floyd are not going to be over drug testing...it's going to be over PPV numbers and purse splits. So I am hoping that this fight is close to the 1.4 million of Floyd's last fight...but is this even possible? I did say the word "hope" and not "expect".

On another note: I once has a disagreement with Helven over a boxing issue that we debated a bit about. I don't even remember the full details...but I do remember he was most civil and respectable with me. Plus...in the end he was right and I was wrong (not a big surprise since my boxing knowledge is limited). I would like to see this level of negative passion from all sides end. Please let's just agree to disagree...and move on.



Right man, you couldn't have said it better.

Hey Reigncourts, let's kiss and make up. :)

:peace:




Sincerely yours,

Robin

Ok, lang dito Rob.., helven pala. Make up na lang wag na kiss, baka yayain mo pa ko sa Facebook di ko alam kung ano meron doon.
Trans: I'm busy with my Wikipedia editing so next time Emman and I can easily agree. My first try was rejected and they wan't me to apologize to Graham Houston first. :D
Btw, my sig needs editing as well. :peace:

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I defend PAC on OSDT and Catchweight Issues; Not his Traditional Politics and Religious Exploits.

"Marcos, Hitler, Diktador, TUTA. Patalsikin ang bangkay ni Marcos sa LNMB". PATALSIKIN!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:45 am 
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reigncourts wrote:
Watch how Floyd Mayweather looked like he has seen a ghost when Margarito challenged him for the Welterweight title. After the incident Floydie again feigned retirement to duck not only Margo but Mosley and Cotto as well. A win by Pacquiao over Margarito fight makes him a better Welterweight Champion than Floyd, having won over the last of the Welterweight top contenders that Mayweather ducked, except Mosley.

If Floyd ducks Manny again after Margarito, a last battle with the Pacman would be
Shane Mosley at Welterweight. No catchweight, only day of the fight weigh-in. (147lbs for both.) or whatever they agree upon. A win over Mosley forever seals Floyd Mayweather’s legacy as runner-up to The Pacman. Manny Pacquiao will then be remembered as P4P King in two divisions, The Featherweights and Welterweights in his reign.

Manny Pacquiao vs Margarito after Mayweather Ducks Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3DJAI6Cac


wait, when is the ducking Cotto happend and why PAC fight Marga over Mosley... Image

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:25 am 
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kingofbira wrote:
reigncourts wrote:
Watch how Floyd Mayweather looked like he has seen a ghost when Margarito challenged him for the Welterweight title. After the incident Floydie again feigned retirement to duck not only Margo but Mosley and Cotto as well. A win by Pacquiao over Margarito fight makes him a better Welterweight Champion than Floyd, having won over the last of the Welterweight top contenders that Mayweather ducked, except Mosley.

If Floyd ducks Manny again after Margarito, a last battle with the Pacman would be
Shane Mosley at Welterweight. No catchweight, only day of the fight weigh-in. (147lbs for both.) or whatever they agree upon. A win over Mosley forever seals Floyd Mayweather’s legacy as runner-up to The Pacman. Manny Pacquiao will then be remembered as P4P King in two divisions, The Featherweights and Welterweights in his reign.

Manny Pacquiao vs Margarito after Mayweather Ducks Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3DJAI6Cac



wait, when is the ducking Cotto happend and why PAC fight Marga over Mosley... Image


This video made on June 08, 2010 was a prediction come true, just like most of my other videos.
Mayweather Plan B is to Duck Pacquiao Again; Like he ducked Cotto, Margarito
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQV1umd27bU

_________________
I defend PAC on OSDT and Catchweight Issues; Not his Traditional Politics and Religious Exploits.

"Marcos, Hitler, Diktador, TUTA. Patalsikin ang bangkay ni Marcos sa LNMB". PATALSIKIN!!!
____


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:30 pm 
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reigncourts wrote:
kingofbira wrote:
reigncourts wrote:
Watch how Floyd Mayweather looked like he has seen a ghost when Margarito challenged him for the Welterweight title. After the incident Floydie again feigned retirement to duck not only Margo but Mosley and Cotto as well. A win by Pacquiao over Margarito fight makes him a better Welterweight Champion than Floyd, having won over the last of the Welterweight top contenders that Mayweather ducked, except Mosley.

If Floyd ducks Manny again after Margarito, a last battle with the Pacman would be
Shane Mosley at Welterweight. No catchweight, only day of the fight weigh-in. (147lbs for both.) or whatever they agree upon. A win over Mosley forever seals Floyd Mayweather’s legacy as runner-up to The Pacman. Manny Pacquiao will then be remembered as P4P King in two divisions, The Featherweights and Welterweights in his reign.

Manny Pacquiao vs Margarito after Mayweather Ducks Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3DJAI6Cac



wait, when is the ducking Cotto happend and why PAC fight Marga over Mosley... Image


This video made on June 08, 2010 was a prediction come true, just like most of my other videos.
Mayweather Plan B is to Duck Pacquiao Again; Like he ducked Cotto, Margarito
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQV1umd27bU


so Pac ducked Pbf first for not accepting the 14day window Image, juz to remind you Cotto ducked Pbf since LW and Arum ducked Pbf for not assuring that if he fight Marga the next opponent will be Cotto and Hoya... Image

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:50 pm 
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reigncourts wrote
Watch how Floyd Mayweather looked like he has seen a ghost when Margarito challenged him for the Welterweight title. After the incident Floydie again feigned retirement to duck not only Margo but Mosley and Cotto as well. A win by [size=150]Pacquiao over Margarito fight makes him a better Welterweight Champion than Floyd, having won over the last of the Welterweight top contenders that Mayweather ducked, except Mosley.

If Floyd ducks Manny again after Margarito, a last battle with the Pacman would be
Shane Mosley at Welterweight. No catchweight, only day of the fight weigh-in. (147lbs for both.) or whatever they agree upon. A win over Mosley forever seals Floyd Mayweather’s legacy as runner-up to The Pacman. Manny Pacquiao will then be remembered as P4P King in two divisions, The Featherweights and Welterweights in his reign.

Manny Pacquiao vs Margarito after Mayweather Ducks Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3DJAI6Cac

kingofbira:
wait, when is the ducking Cotto happend and why PAC fight Marga over Mosley... Image

reigncourts:
This video made on June 08, 2010 was a prediction come true, just like most of my other videos.
Mayweather Plan B is to Duck Pacquiao Again; Like he ducked Cotto, Margarito
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQV1umd27bU

so Pac ducked Pbf first for not accepting the 14day window Image, juz to remind you Cotto ducked Pbf since LW and Arum ducked Pbf for not assuring that if he fight Marga the next opponent will be Cotto and Hoya... Image

reigncourts:

The point is Mayweather has long been a Welterweight together with Mosley, Cotto, Margarito and Clottey while Pacquiao was still battling the best Featherweights, and yet Floydie was able to avoid these names until Pacquiao join them. No thanks to a Haiti earthquake, Floyd was finally forced to fight Mosley.
I respect all your opinions about ducks, but before I end up quacking like a duck, I'll duck all questions from you about ducks.

_________________
I defend PAC on OSDT and Catchweight Issues; Not his Traditional Politics and Religious Exploits.

"Marcos, Hitler, Diktador, TUTA. Patalsikin ang bangkay ni Marcos sa LNMB". PATALSIKIN!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:41 pm 
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To fellow Paclanders
A recently edited definition of a catchweight is printed below. The highlighted portions are our own contributions. I really hope it reflects the views of the majority of those who participated or read the discussions in this forum. This effort is to clarify that a title won on a catchweight is not only as legitimate but more courageous (for the smaller fighter) than a traditional title when fighters were weighed-in the day of the fight (meaning both have almost the same weight on fight time). It is also to highlight the fact that some fighters are cheating the weights by not coming prepared to pass a weigh-in, getting penalized and come at a huge weight advantage on fight night. In addition to the Gatti-Gamache mismatch we have the Jose Luis Castillo vs Diego Corrales and Mayweather vs Marquez bouts. Again I hope we all support a campaign to clarify these issues on catchweights. Thank you.

Catch weight
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A catch weight is a term used in combat sports such as boxing and mixed martial arts to describe a weight limit for a fight that does not fall in line with the traditional limits for weight classes. In boxing, a catch-weight is negotiated to “level the playing field” when the weigh-ins are conducted a day before the fight.

Explanation

Strictly speaking, a catch-weight in boxing is used to describe a weight limit for a fight that does not fall in line with the limits for the expanded weight classes; after the traditional rules of “day of” fight were changed to “day before” fight weigh-ins and after the traditional 8 weight divisions were expanded to 17 weight classes.

An agreed weight was used to describe a catch-weight in the traditional way, when only eight (8) division limits existed and all weigh-ins were done “day or hours” before the fight. A historical marker that points to when “day of” fight ended is the advent of television. In boxing and in Muhammad Ali’s time, they started televising the weigh-in proceedings to promote fights necessitating a “day before” fight weigh-in.

The difference between a boxing catch-weight and an MMA catch-weight is the time when the fighters are weighed in. In boxing, the weigh-ins are made a “day before” the fight so that the catch-weight limit and specific penalties are already agreed before the weigh-ins. In MMA, the weigh-ins are made “night of” the fights so that the catch-weight limit and penalties are only agreed after the weigh-ins.

With modern conditioning and training methods, today’s fighters are able to cut weight for a “day before” fight weigh-in and regain the same weight on “day of” the fight. Reference: How to Cut and Make Weight – Martin Rooney. [1]6. http://www.grapplearts.com/How-to-Cut-Weight.html

The purpose of a catch-weight is to compensate for the ability of bigger boxers to cut weight before a “day before” fight weigh-in and re-build to a weight more than the specified limit (division or catch-weight) on “day of” the fight with little effects to his performance. The catch weight is not only to provide a level playing field but also to prevent weight mismatches that can endanger the fighters. And more importantly, the catch-weight is to ensure the fight is not canceled due last minute disagreement on fight time.

A case of a weight mismatch is the Arturo Gatti vs Joey Gamache fight. In the controversial fight between Gatti vs Gamache, Gamache's handlers claimed Gatti had gained 19 pounds since the weigh-in the “day before” and thus had a large advantage over Gamache. This resulted in serious injuries to the smaller Gamache. After Gatti-Gamache, some boxing commissions started weighing boxers a second time.
[2]5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arturo_Gatti

Combat sports commonly have defined weight classes with specific weight limits. For example, each boxing division with the exception of heavyweight has its own limits for weight classes, ranging from 105 pounds for minimumweight to 200 pounds for cruiserweight and varying in range in the weight classes in between. In order to fight for a championship in these weight classes the fighters must come in to the fight at or below said weight.

In another example, fighters can agree to fight at a formal weight; however, at weigh-in a fighter can come in over the formal weight. So the fight is not canceled, an agreement may be reached where the fight is made at a catch weight. Commonly, the fighter who comes in overweight pays a penalty - for example a 20% penalty with 10% going to the fighter who made weight and 10% going to a commission sanctioning the fight. An example of this catch weight situation occurred at UFC 104 where Anthony Johnson came in over the welterweight limit of 170 for his fight against Yoshiyuki Yoshida. While commissions sometimes give a one pound grace, Johnson came in at 176. An agreement was made that the fight would occur at a catch weight of 176.[1]http://mmajunkie.com/news/16599/ufc-104-official-weigh-in-results-live-from-the-l-a-live-event-deck.mma

Oftentimes, catch weight fights are still considered fights within a formal weight class. For example, when Manny Pacquiao fought Miguel Cotto, the fight was at a catch weight of 145 pounds to accommodate Pacquiao's smaller physique. Boxing has a junior welterweight weight class with a weight limit of 140 and a welterweight weight class with a weight limit of 147. Since the fight was under the 147 limit and above the 140 limit, the fight was considered a welterweight fight as well as being considered a catch weight fight. In addition, the World Boxing Organization sanctioned this fight for the welterweight title since the fight was under the welterweight limit.[2]http://www.braggingrightscorner.com/guzmancotto111309.html

Catchweight fights can also occur when fighters decide to meet at a weight class limit that is in between the two fighters normal weight classes. For example when Manny Pacquiao fought Oscar De La Hoya the fight took place at the 147lb weight class which is a welterweight fight. But the fighters used the weightclass as a catchweight since De La Hoya was fighting above 147 at the time and Pacquiao was fighting below 147.
Another example was at UFC 99 when Wanderlei Silva fought Rich Franklin at a catch weight bout of 195 pounds. Silva typically fought at the Light Heavyweight weight class of 205 pounds, while Franklin fought at the Middleweight weight class of 185 pounds. They agreed on a catch weight bout, and both men weighed in at 194 for the fight.[3]http://www.ufc.com/news/Official_UFC_99_WeighIn_Results

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I defend PAC on OSDT and Catchweight Issues; Not his Traditional Politics and Religious Exploits.

"Marcos, Hitler, Diktador, TUTA. Patalsikin ang bangkay ni Marcos sa LNMB". PATALSIKIN!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:43 pm 
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... and this lives on ... :D :D :lol:

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