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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:30 pm 
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There was a saying that Freddie Roach doesn't make the same mistake twice.

What was Roach's strategy against MAB? In this fight, he trained Pac to be more aggressive and throw a lot of combo and never allowing MAB to fight back. At least that was his theory on how PAC can beat MAB.

And it worked!

Now, against JMM, Roach was wary of his power that he was saying that fighting Marquez is a lot different. That Pacquiao needs to get in and out immediately after firing shots.

But reading your analysis tells us that Pacquiao could have simply pulverized Marquez by not letting go of the pressure.

I noticed that in round 1 and 2, Pacquiao didn't even try to get out of JMM's firing range. And he was able to subject JMM into heavy fire outlanding him by a lot of power shots.

But the moment Pac got hit in round 3, he started to get in and out again. But he can take JMM's power shots. They couldn't even wobble him.

By the time Roach figured out that Pac simply needs to go forward and pressure JMM, it was too late.

Was it really the injuries or was it Pacquiao's mind simply conditioned to get out of range after firing some shots?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:43 am 
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yea i seew hat u mean. Roach had a weirdf startegy he wanted pacman to throw alot of body shots. Unfortunatly, marquez is very hard to hit in the body so every time pac tried a body shot he would get countered.

If pac goes all out next time he will win like he was doing in rd 1


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 Post subject: Yeah!!!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:04 am 
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And we, Pacman fans, are busy with the "socks" theory as Mr. Garcia puts it.

But team Pac really did make some mistakes. And it cost them the belts.

Anyway, this is what JMM is perhaps worrying about. That Pacman can pulverize him the next time around.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:09 pm 
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Location: Geico.com even a Pac Nuthugger can do it
you are right torvix, as far as i can remember during the later rounds, roach tells pac to be more aggresive and don't back down and it works. JMM did not control the pace of the fight specially in the later rounds.

:drinking:

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A lot of people said that Pac nuthuggers should be punched in the head not my personal opinion but i think they have a point.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:13 pm 
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As I said before...Nacho Beristain won that fight with Roach. Hopefully Roach gets a rematch and turn things around.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:33 pm 
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i cant wait to see part to of this saga and i'm 100% for the PAC


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:21 pm 
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ACCORDING TO ME...IT'S MANNY WHO WON THE FIGHT IF NOT FOR THE WRONG SCORING. BUT I AGREE THAT MANNY SHOULD HAVE GONE FOR A NEVER ENDING ASSAULT AS HE HAS MORE SPEED AND POWER THAN JMM.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:43 pm 
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Good analysis but keep this in mind. As a trainer would you have known all of these information before the fight? No, that's why you change strategy and thats what Roach did. It's boxing you can plan as much as you can and you can get everything right on paper but it really boils down to that night. Everybody has a plan until they get hit. I think Roach had a smart plan of going in and out, however i don't think it's in Manny's nature to go that way. Yes he's more successfull if he goes all out and go for the kill but also as a trainer and coach you have to teach your student other ways to win, broaden your arsenal and style, in the long run it will separate the great ones from the ordinary.

My two cents.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:50 am 
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Well, but Roach has not considered why Marquez is branded as an excellent counter puncher.

What is an excellent counter puncher?

By definition alone, it means that he can hit you clean whether you try to get out after firing a shot.

That's Marquez.

So, from the beginning, Roach's strategy is a little bit less sound than what he used against Barrera.

Even with those injuries, Pac could have hurt Marquez more to make him fade in the later rounds.

And Pac can then just simply give the last 5 rounds to Marquez if he pressured him too much again on round 4,5,6, and 7.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:54 am 
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Roach has to study Marquez better. In training for Barrera fight, he said he doesn't have to watch Barrera's tapes bcoz he "KNEW" barrera. Maybe that's the difference.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:22 pm 
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You are right Torvix, Pac could have used the same tactic he applied against Barrera. The reason I think Roach was too cautious against Marquez was because he wasn't so sure if Pac can take Marquez's power shots. He probably wasn't too confident that Pac's chin was tough enough to absorb the shots. When he realized that Pac could take it, like you said, it was too late. I'm sure there will be a different tactic the second time around, and the outcome won't be the same. Marquez will go down this time...for good.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:50 am 
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raditz_vc wrote:
Roach has to study Marquez better. In training for Barrera fight, he said he doesn't have to watch Barrera's tapes bcoz he "KNEW" barrera. Maybe that's the difference.


Yeah! JMM may find himself inside a pressure cooker next time around.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:15 pm 
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I agree with the original post. If you watched JMM's fight against Salido, JMM clearly couldn't handle relentless attacks because his counters are limited to a few punches. When Salido threw a barrage of punches and pursued (which, unfortunately was not often enough), JMM tended to retreat to the ropes which is exactly how Pac could pulverize him if it happens in the rematch.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:45 pm 
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Many boxing critics doubted the ability of the pacman to absorb punches in the chin before the fight with jmm. They were amazed to realize that the pacman can take jmm punch without blinking an eye. But maybe we are all forgetting here that the RAGING issue of the day is DISCIPLINE. Let us all hope that the pacman can gather his priorities straight and start training seriously for jmm as early as now, otherwise all this theories we are talking about will go into naught.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:23 am 
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Pacquiao has good attributes. But he is falling prey to the psychological tactics of the dirty promoters of Mexichickens.

It's not Pac's fault but of his handlers.

You give Pac the exact date of the fight against a formidable opponent and he will train perfectly.

But use psywar tactics against him, and he won't know what to do.

Why not NAZARIO and MURAD use the same dirty tactics against the Mexichickens. Why not issue press releases that Pacman is banging with drunks in night clubs, staying very late playing billiards, not in shape, etc. While all the while keeping himself in shape and training perfectly.

Nah... NAZARIO and MURAD are just baby crocs compared to the mother croc Arum. He'll be able to read the babies' minds.


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