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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:31 am 
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Ok, Roach keeps insisting on training Manny to develope a right hook to knock Marquez out. WRONG. First off, Manny is a southpaw, his whole fight style and power is from the left. Trying to develope Manny's right is a nice idea though not against such a smart opponent like Marquez who I think will KO Manny if Manny throws those wild inaccurate shots like he did vs Fahsan. If you notice in the first fight with Marquez, Manny only threw 1 PUNCH AT A TIME! I mean, what the hell? Seriously, just watch it. Manny was doing 1 punch at a time. How can Marquez not have trouble countering 1 punch? If Manny wants to beat Marquez, he needs serious training so he can throw leather all night long. It's the only way to beat a master counter puncher. Look at Barrera, he's a counter puncher as well though Manny threw so many punches that he couldn't counter them all. Though at the rate Manny is preparing, he won't be able to go 12 rounds hard nonstop liek a machine like he was against Barrera. This is why he won't be able to diffuse Marquez's amazing counter punching. You gotta give Marquez credit where it's due and he's definitely got crazy counter punching skills. Manny needs to win by some miracle KO(which I doubt according to Marquez's crazy preparations again, and this time better). Manny is going to train the same amount of time as the first and get a blister again or some other thing just because his bad preparations and cramming in at the last second to get his training in. It doesn't sound like a fighter who cares.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:20 am 
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Agree!

The right hand won't do any better I guess for PacMan against Marquez. Why? Because Marquez is an orthodox fighter where the lead hand is his left. Marquez is smart by extending his left to ward-off that lead right hand of Manny. This was the mystery Manny wasn't able to solve in that fight. That extended left by Marquez was his gauge and indicator when Manny threw that left and unluckily it was effective throughout rounds 2 to 12.

The only way Manny can do is to device (again) a fake lead right hand followed by his lethal left (straight or uppercut) and an all offense workrate that will put Marquez on the defensive mode and this can be possible if Manny starts filling his oxygen tanks soon.

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:28 am 
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I agree, if Manny throws too many of those weak right hooks he will get caught by JMM. If you look at his last fight vs Fahsan, those right hooks were 1) slow, you could clearly see them coming 2) weak, even if they land cleanly they won't do any damage.

Manny should concentrate on his right jab, and just stick with using his left but with more variety. IMO he should incorporate more left hooks & uppercuts to go along with his straight left.

And I agree with his one punch at a time flaw from the first fight. He needs to throw more 2-3 punch combos to neutralize the counterpunches.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:31 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:37 am 
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c'mon guys, roach is making manny a complete fighter. roach knows that manny has a weak ryt hand dats why he is working on it to make it stronger.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:49 am 
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You made some good analysis here ElPacMan, Par_5 and Mr. P.
During the 1st fight, Roach kept on telling Pac to throw combinations
and not just 1-2 punches. Jmm can easily avoid, think and counter
with 1-2 combinations and he can counter with 1-2-3-4 punch combinations which can win points from the judges.
The key here is for Pac to have enough gas tank to use for 12
rounds throwing lots of bombs to confuse jmm just like what he
did against Barrera. If Pac cannot KO jmm within the first 6 rounds, Jmm
will use his stamina to throw strong punches and frustrate Pac after the
middle rounds.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:56 am 
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Well not exactly. Pacquiao still needs to train his right hand because Marquez doesn't counter punch until Pac releases his left hand or Pac outpositioned himself for a Marquez offensive.

Marquez extends his left hand to neutralize Pac's right hand. It was effective because Marquez can do that for the entire fight never mind turning the fight into a boring match.

One of Pacquiao's strengths is his unpredictable right cross. Why? Because he doesn't lunge when he throws it. But Marquez figured out a way to counter a cross that doesn't need lunging. And that is to gauge it by extending his left hand even sometimes sticking it to Manny's face.

Solution: Develop the right hand. But improvise on variety. How about a right that needs lunging... and when Marquez fall for it... fire the left straight instead... followed by a right cross.

As for Pacquiao's right uppercuts, they were slow. Even Fahsan can see them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:01 am 
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First of all, Freddie is a world class trainer, he's also a former 'Trainer of the Year' awardee. So chances are, the way he's training Manny is the RIGHT way.

I know F.R's only human, but I'll warrant that he knows boxing better than all of us here in PACLAND combined.

That said, the best thing to do now is to just support Manny in whatever manner he trains.
Doesnt matter if Roach decides to use the right hand more or less often, let's just hope that whatever method Freddie implements will offset Manny's lack of preparation.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:03 am 
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ZappakeR wrote:
First of all, Freddie is a world class trainer, he's also a former 'Trainer of the Year' awardee. So chances are, the way he's training Manny is the RIGHT way.

I know F.R's only human, but I'll warrant that he knows boxing better than all of us here in PACLAND combined.

That said, the best thing to do now is to just support Manny in whatever manner he trains.
Doesnt matter if Roach decides to use the right hand more or less often, let's just hope that whatever method Freddie implements will offset Manny's lack of preparation.


i'll drink to that bro! :toast:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:12 am 
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For all us Mondaty Morning Quaterbacks, pretending to be boxing experts, we all need be careful in our criticism of one of the best regarded trainers in boxing. I know most of us mean well, just be careful sounding like ignorant fools. Saying that what Roach is doing is wrong, is like saying you don't think that the Pope is saying the mass right.

There's a reason Freddie is training Manny, Tyson and a slew of world-caliber fighters and we (poster) are behind the computer.


Last edited by Erap on Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:15 am 
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Yeah! That's why the right hand needs to be developed at all cost. Whether for offense or for follow up shots.

Pac's left hand has proven to be very versatile. He learned that medium range left uppercut in so short a time. Hehehe... I actually think that Pac learned that from JMM himself. Perhaps after eating some of JMM's right uppercuts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:27 am 
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can you imagine how devastating Pac will be if he'll be able to develope his right like Trinidad's left?. . . bad thing is, he doesn't have enough time to polish that right. I think they should just focus on "stick and move" plan just what they did to MAB.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:30 am 
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i would not criticized Freedie Roach. It's just like telling a heart surgeon on how to operate properly during a heart transplant while in your resume you are a computer programmer or something. Unless you are a boxing trainer itself...

:(

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:37 am 
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Well you know. You can all hope like Freddy is some miracle trainer though lets get realistic here. It comes down to Manny in the end. Freddy already told Manny to come before Christmas. That didn't happen. We are clearly in the SAME SITUATION as the first fight. As I read in some article, Manny can say he had bad socks(blisters), injured hand, though when it comes down to it, it was most likely from the cramming for the fight. Your body needs time to adjust. You can't just jump into intensive training out of the blue. You need time to condition your body as Marquez has been doing since November, or as Manny did before fighting Barrera. Manny said it himself, he trained for 2 months for Barrera(most likely abit longer). By the time he leaves for Marquez, he'll have less than 6 weeks to cram in body conditioning, intensive training, and a strategy that needs to be called a miracle. Let's not forget Manny was jolted by some of Marquez's punches if you watch the fight. There were 2 punches I saw that jolted Manny. I'm not talking about the one that made Manny's head go back or when Marquez winged the punch high and lifted Manny abit. I'm talking about some straight shots Marquez landed right on Manny that dazed Manny for a second. You don't want Marquez landing a lot of those all night because if you really think about it, Manny doesn't like to get hit. Every shot by Barrera, Manny had to back out and retreat to recollect himself.
I also agree and forgot to mention about Manny's right hand. It was HORRIBLY SLOW vs Fahsan and had no pop to it. Marquez will easily dodge those and take advantage of the slowness in them. The most I'd say Manny should use his right hand for, is exactly like for Barrera, keep both fists going at the same time from every angle so he can't predict or anticipate where to counter at. Personally, this isn't Manny's fight. He's fighting the wrong guy who was made for his style. Manny needs a fighter who will walk forward, trade shots, and basically doesn't sit back waiting for Manny to throw first. Let's not say Manny is bad, it's just wrong fight. It's Shane-Mosely 1, and I'm fearing a Shane-Mosely 2.


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 Post subject: Well ...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:42 am 
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I am sorry fellow Paclanders if that is what I viewed on fighting against Marquez. I speak based on facts and not trying to be an expert here, okay? The title of this thread may be misleading but the meat of the discussion is essential to all of us Pac fans here.

Peace to you brothers ...

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