Pacland's Philippine Boxing Forum

Discussion on boxing and other sports, Filipino greats and anything under the sun.
It is currently Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:56 am

All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:23 am 
Offline
Welterweight
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:34 am
Posts: 405
Location: City of Angels
The Legend wrote:
You obviously did your homework in outstanding fashion. Articulate, thought-provoking, and very academic. Well done. Now, below is my own weakness :)
Image


Good one!

Here are my weaknesses:



ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:55 am 
Offline
Lightweight
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:40 am
Posts: 186
Location: basurahan
ewan ko. basta't ang alam ko, Pacquiao by K.O. in 7 or less. In fact, I'm willing to put my hard earned money where my mouth is. :x


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:09 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:03 am
Posts: 7562
Location: SAN LEANDRO 94578
Awesome. More news like this PLEASE!! :toast:

ONE WEEK FROM TOMORROW :celebrate:

_________________
"It often takes more courage to change one's opinion than to stick to it."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:15 am 
Offline
Lightweight

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:54 am
Posts: 135
Location: NY,USA
jesguerra wrote:
First off, with all due respect to the true champion Morales, this article is not meant to degrade his abilitities nor question his warrior spirit. I will merely dissect the facts and lead to my own conclusion.

Now, we all know that Morales has been training up in the Otomi mountains for this upcoming fight. He has practically lived at this high altitude. I will repost the 1st and 2nd paragraph of this article from "http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0239.htm" to prove a point. Heikki K. Rusko, Ph.D wrote:

"As we've reported many times in PEAK PERFORMANCE, living at altitude is great for the endurance athlete. Moderate to high-altitude living increases red-blood-cell concentrations, allowing more oxygen to reach the muscles during exercise, and also hikes the levels of an important chemical called 2.3-DPG, which helps 'release' oxygen from red blood cells to the muscles during intense exercise.

The problem with altitude, though, is that training there stinks. By limiting the amount of oxygen that can reach the muscles, altitude lowers average workout quality. Most athletes carry out both their continuous and interval workouts about 5-10 per cent less intensely at altitude, compared to sea level (here intensity is defined as speed of movement, not percentage of max heart rate). Interestingly, recent research suggests that altitude's slowing effects may begin to show up at elevations of only 2000 feet or so, far below the 4000-5000 feet mark which has usually been linked with downgraded performances. Training more slowly is hardly the way to become a better performer."

Tadaah! :idea:

Observation #1: It has been written in two separate articles the speed at which Pac & Erik run their respective routes. Erik runs 7 miles in about 70 minutes while Pac runs 6 miles in 37 minutes. I know about the altitude factor but common, the discrepancy is too large. Morales runs 1 mile more but yet finishes 33 minutes later...hmmm. And Pacquiao isn't exaclty running strictly on flatland either. The hills in Hollywood reaches probably up to 2,000 feet above sea level. Now that article above gets a little more clearer.

Observation #2: Erik has been dubbed a slow starter. Now we know why. It's due to his high altitude training. It takes him awhile to get acclimated on sea level, especially his handspeed and footwork. Remember the Barrera fight when he said afterwards that his body couldn't react like he wanted to in the earlier rounds...point proven.

Observation #3: Pac speed is already superior in the first place, so imagine his advantage come fight night.

Observation #4: Sure, Marquez dominated the later rounds, but what happened to him again in the 1st round...slow start anyone? And how does Marquez train again...if I'm not mistaken...high altitude!

Conclusion: Based on the article and my factual observations, an athlete's performance can deteriorate by training at high altitudes. It may be great for long distance runners for stamina but handspeed and quick footwork are key in boxing. Manny on the other hand is training at a perfect setting. He runs at high altitudes for stamina, then hones his skills at sea level where he can achieve maximum speed. I don't have the credibility to tell Coach Roach, but I think he should instruct Pac to go for the kill from the opening bell. Don't wait for Erik to adjust in the later rounds like what he did with Barrera, and what Marquez did against Pacquiao. Coach mentioned to do this earlier, but now he is saying that Pac will pick his spots to attack. My first prediction was Pac by KO in the late rounds, but now if Pac goes for the jugular early, this could be an early night folks.
Good point bro.!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:22 am 
Offline
Light Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:40 pm
Posts: 1649
Location: Bronx,NY
jesguerra wrote:
First off, with all due respect to the true champion Morales, this article is not meant to degrade his abilitities nor question his warrior spirit. I will merely dissect the facts and lead to my own conclusion.

Now, we all know that Morales has been training up in the Otomi mountains for this upcoming fight. He has practically lived at this high altitude. I will repost the 1st and 2nd paragraph of this article from "http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0239.htm" to prove a point. Heikki K. Rusko, Ph.D wrote:

"As we've reported many times in PEAK PERFORMANCE, living at altitude is great for the endurance athlete. Moderate to high-altitude living increases red-blood-cell concentrations, allowing more oxygen to reach the muscles during exercise, and also hikes the levels of an important chemical called 2.3-DPG, which helps 'release' oxygen from red blood cells to the muscles during intense exercise.

The problem with altitude, though, is that training there stinks. By limiting the amount of oxygen that can reach the muscles, altitude lowers average workout quality. Most athletes carry out both their continuous and interval workouts about 5-10 per cent less intensely at altitude, compared to sea level (here intensity is defined as speed of movement, not percentage of max heart rate). Interestingly, recent research suggests that altitude's slowing effects may begin to show up at elevations of only 2000 feet or so, far below the 4000-5000 feet mark which has usually been linked with downgraded performances. Training more slowly is hardly the way to become a better performer."

Tadaah! :idea:

Observation #1: It has been written in two separate articles the speed at which Pac & Erik run their respective routes. Erik runs 7 miles in about 70 minutes while Pac runs 6 miles in 37 minutes. I know about the altitude factor but common, the discrepancy is too large. Morales runs 1 mile more but yet finishes 33 minutes later...hmmm. And Pacquiao isn't exaclty running strictly on flatland either. The hills in Hollywood reaches probably up to 2,000 feet above sea level. Now that article above gets a little more clearer.

Observation #2: Erik has been dubbed a slow starter. Now we know why. It's due to his high altitude training. It takes him awhile to get acclimated on sea level, especially his handspeed and footwork. Remember the Barrera fight when he said afterwards that his body couldn't react like he wanted to in the earlier rounds...point proven.

Observation #3: Pac speed is already superior in the first place, so imagine his advantage come fight night.

Observation #4: Sure, Marquez dominated the later rounds, but what happened to him again in the 1st round...slow start anyone? And how does Marquez train again...if I'm not mistaken...high altitude!

Conclusion: Based on the article and my factual observations, an athlete's performance can deteriorate by training at high altitudes. It may be great for long distance runners for stamina but handspeed and quick footwork are key in boxing. Manny on the other hand is training at a perfect setting. He runs at high altitudes for stamina, then hones his skills at sea level where he can achieve maximum speed. I don't have the credibility to tell Coach Roach, but I think he should instruct Pac to go for the kill from the opening bell. Don't wait for Erik to adjust in the later rounds like what he did with Barrera, and what Marquez did against Pacquiao. Coach mentioned to do this earlier, but now he is saying that Pac will pick his spots to attack. My first prediction was Pac by KO in the late rounds, but now if Pac goes for the jugular early, this could be an early night folks.


This is a very good post bro...This is what I discussed before in the forum..I agree on some of your conclusions..I bet Freddie Roach doesnt believe on training his fighters on high altitude specially placing a boxing gym on top of the mountain

Exercising on high altitude sucks! We went camping in the Catskills about 2 years ago and decided to run early in the moring.My usual 20 minute RUN only got me around 10 minutes and I was so exhausted, I was gasping for air and my legs started to cramp! So whats the point in trying to train hard when you cant perform your best?

Actually, You can still increase your oxygen carrying capacity if you just SLEEP there then go down for training, but then It could be a hassle traveling back and forth..This is still a debatable training method because some trainers argue that in a few weeks, your body will produce more red blood cells to carry more oxygen into your body when you LIVE and TRAIN on top,then you can start to train better in that altitude..

When you go down for the fight, they say its an advantage for you having a high RBC count..Then some experts say that you can duplicate that using supplemments..So many trainers still prefer different things as well as boxers..Like DelaHoya who likes to get isolated while Vernon Forrest cant concentrate well and hates it coz he said its too boring up there..heheh

And as for the roadwork..I think Morales is tapering off his weight by running in a slow pace for long periods of time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:23 am 
Offline
Welterweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 335
Location: Gen San City
NICE ANALYSIS BRO,SALUDO AKO SA'YO..I PREDECT ROUND 3,PACMAN BY KNOCK OUT.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:38 am 
Offline
Light Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:40 pm
Posts: 1649
Location: Bronx,NY
I also would like to add about acclimatization pre...I dont think boxers who are slow starters are adjusting on the climate basing on the early rounds going to the late, Maybe its just their habit to measure up their opponent first...Usually, the fighters are already in Vegas a week before the bout..And the fighter who has been training on high altitude still has that high Red Blood Cell count to bring it to fight time.

If youre fast, then you really are fast..If youre slow,then you really are slow..But I believe high altitude training greatly increases your stamina.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:41 am 
Offline
Lightweight

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:51 am
Posts: 127
napakagandang tip!sana lahat tyo may mga ganyang nalalaman o nadidiskubre,malaki matututlong nyan kay idol,sigurado mlalaman nya yan o alam na nila ni fredie,thanks BRO! PARA KAY IDOL!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:42 am 
Offline
Heavyweight

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:31 am
Posts: 8511
Location: Geico.com even a Pac Nuthugger can do it
i'm not being an a$shole here but based in my recollection. Did Juan Manuel Marquez also trained in the mountains of Tolucas? He did goes down 3 times in round 1 but he indeed up winning most of the rounds and was outboxing Pac.

Don't get too excited Paclanders. There was no proven fact/evidence that training on high altitude can cause a deliterious effect on the boxers body.

IMO the fight is a pick 'em fight although i give Pac the edge due his speed and power.

:peace:

_________________
A lot of people said that Pac nuthuggers should be punched in the head not my personal opinion but i think they have a point.

Geico.com even a Pac NUTHUGGER can do it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:58 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:56 am
Posts: 22585
Location: Paradise
Quote:
IMO the fight is a pick 'em fight although i give Pac the edge due his speed and power.

Please. You're picking Pac b/c you're a nuthugger. :-) :P :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:03 am 
Offline
Heavyweight

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:31 am
Posts: 8511
Location: Geico.com even a Pac Nuthugger can do it
JoeyInCali wrote:
Quote:
IMO the fight is a pick 'em fight although i give Pac the edge due his speed and power.

Please. You're picking Pac b/c you're a nuthugger. :-) :P :-)


50-50.. i'm not yet a full pleged NUTHUGGER... :biglaugh:

hell, i even pick Pac to KTFO oscar de la hoya... :biglaugh:

_________________
A lot of people said that Pac nuthuggers should be punched in the head not my personal opinion but i think they have a point.

Geico.com even a Pac NUTHUGGER can do it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:07 am 
Offline
Welterweight
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:34 am
Posts: 405
Location: City of Angels
PolgasUnlimited wrote:
i'm not being an a$shole here but based in my recollection. Did Juan Manuel Marquez also trained in the mountains of Tolucas? He did goes down 3 times in round 1 but he indeed up winning most of the rounds and was outboxing Pac.

Don't get too excited Paclanders. There was no proven fact/evidence that training on high altitude can cause a deliterious effect on the boxers body.

IMO the fight is a pick 'em fight although i give Pac the edge due his speed and power.

:peace:


Hey, maybe this thread can start to open people's minds and come up with a proven fact!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:15 am 
Offline
Heavyweight

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:31 am
Posts: 8511
Location: Geico.com even a Pac Nuthugger can do it
jesguerra wrote:
PolgasUnlimited wrote:
i'm not being an a$shole here but based in my recollection. Did Juan Manuel Marquez also trained in the mountains of Tolucas? He did goes down 3 times in round 1 but he indeed up winning most of the rounds and was outboxing Pac.

Don't get too excited Paclanders. There was no proven fact/evidence that training on high altitude can cause a deliterious effect on the boxers body.

IMO the fight is a pick 'em fight although i give Pac the edge due his speed and power.

:peace:


Hey, maybe this thread can start to open people's minds and come up with a proven fact!


co-signed Image

_________________
A lot of people said that Pac nuthuggers should be punched in the head not my personal opinion but i think they have a point.

Geico.com even a Pac NUTHUGGER can do it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:36 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:25 am
Posts: 14892
Location: SuMwEr bEtwEeN EL-Aiy aNd T-JaY
This will be a though one! Proving facts about high altitude training vs sea level training contains many variables. There's a lot of unquantifiable forces involved. First is the HEART, How can we measure one's heart? Second is the WILL. Can we just put it in a test tube and experiment on it? Third is the SPIRIT. This is not a hologram that we can program and control it at our disposal.

It will go down to WHO WANTS IT MORE!!!

_________________
"I REFUSE to go into a battle of wits with an unarmed man."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:45 am 
Offline
Flyweight
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 16
Manny needs to unleash his upper cut and break Erik's nose. Now that will fix him.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 103 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

philboxing.com | pinoygreats.com
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group