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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:54 am 
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Gil P. Acosta wrote:
Andre Ward, who? Who has he beaten? He beat Dawson, really? And who is Dawson anyway? Ward has not shown anything remarkable. Maybe he looked good in his last fight but who did he beat? The man he beat is not even rated in the 10 pound for pound best. And particularly they fought in their own confortable weights. What is remarkable about that? Maybe it could be a spectacular win to some but as I have commented against who? One is judged by the opposition one beats. Winning in spectacular fashion against someone who is not even spectacular is meaningless. Do not compare apples and oranges. A boxer is considered pound for pound best if he has proven that he can win even at weights uncomfortable with him and that will make a win more meaningful. The class of opposition say a lot on a boxer's win record. Beating Dawson is just ordinary, OK?


all i know is ward in a place in hospital.
pwede children ward, maternity ward, senior citizen ward etc. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

dawson is actually a creek. dawson's creek :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:33 am 
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Romy Nabas wrote:
all i know is ward in a place in hospital.
pwede children ward, maternity ward, senior citizen ward etc. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

dawson is actually a creek. dawson's creek :lol: :lol: :lol:

Corny.

Logout mo nga si nabas. Log in mo si diskin. Mas mabenta jokes nun :biglaugh:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:52 am 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
There you have it....Pac and Floyds recent fights were also against top contenders of their weight division...some are also in the pound for pound list best in the world.....so to say Ward is more impressive lately is arguably...

Andre Ward is good but what he showed is not yet enough to dethrone Pac/Floyd as the number 1 pound4pound best...putting him at the number 1 spot just bcoz he defended his belt against a light heavyweight champ is unfair for fighters who are moving up and down in weight challenging themselves just to get that recognition....



Big difference. Ward was impressive and no one came close to beating him. Pacquiao's win against Marquez was controversial and Floyd struggled against Cotto. Remember that Manny also officially lost to Bradley and wasn't as scintillating in his last three fights. The quality of Ward's wins against top tier opposition far outstrips Floyd's and Manny's victories. With the exception of that fight against Margarito, Manny also stayed put in the welterweight division.


Ward was impressive because he defeated a dehydrated Chad? yes, it was Chad who asked for it but lets be real, thats a soft Chad he beat up in there....Pac had a controversial win over a Pound for Pound fighter also in Marquez...who is Chad if you will compare him to the mexican legend? Cotto is also ranked number 1 and the champ at 154 when Floyd defeated him... in the other hand, Chad was never ranked in super middleweight never had a fight in 168 since '06 to be exact and now you telling me kuya na Ward was more impressive?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:02 am 
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Any boxing fan knows who Andre Ward is....Im one of his fans but i have to admit that i thought Froch is going to win the super6... I dont have a problem with the fans who think Ward is the best pound for pound fighter today...what i am critical of actually is these writers from different other sites whos spreading false information to casual boxing fan.....Saying Ward is the best because he defeated a DEHYDRATED soft Chad is a joke...see, i can sound like these fanatic-writers too....

I can only imagine what kind of praise Dre would be getting from American writers if he had move up in weight and beats up the BAD Chad in his weight..I may sound stupid but its what it is... American writers tends to exaggerate everything when it comes to their boxers...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Who is Andre Ward??..only a nuthugger would seriously ask that question..Andre Ward is a beast..he's beaten notable names in his division and it's a tough division..he beat Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Bika, Green..he's the super six champ..beating Dawson didn't make him a star..he was already a star..(plus that fight with Dawson didn't count shiet for me cause Dawson had to go down a whole fuckin' division..the man was weight drained..props for Dawson to take the fight though)..not only that, Ward is a fuckin' olympic gold medalist..shiet..he should be lb 4 lb..anyway, I would like to see Ward against Dirrell..good fight right there

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:40 pm 
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krayz211 wrote:
There you have it....Pac and Floyds recent fights were also against top contenders of their weight division...some are also in the pound for pound list best in the world.....so to say Ward is more impressive lately is arguably...


Pac's recent fights, going back as far as Clottey in 2010, were against big but less talented men he was expected to beat. Only two of those men, Marquez and Bradley,were ranked in Top 10 p4p but were campaigning one or two divisions below. Going up in weight to challenge the best fighter in that division is also exposed to the same risk as going one division down. In Pac's last 5 fights, only Clottey and Shane Mosley were at their normal weight class. Marquez had to climb two divisions up to give pac hell which eventually ended up in a very controversial decision in his favor. Poetic injustice was rendered when Pac officially lost to Bradley who had to climb 7 lbs. north as opposed to Dawson shedding off 5 lbs. since his last fight. In boxing, ranking is always based on official results. A win is an official win no matter how hard we dispute the validity of the scorecards. Anyway, Pac had his share of hair-thinned decisions in the Marquez trilogy going his way. If we find something great in Pac's recent fights, why couldn't we find something to appreciate from the 2011 Ring Fighter of the Year who just dominated the toughest competition in the Super Middleweight division in years? It's me saying to u that Ward being more impressive than Pacquiao lately is true.


krayz211 wrote:
Andre Ward is good but what he showed is not yet enough to dethrone Pac/Floyd as the number 1 pound4pound best...putting him at the number 1 spot just bcoz he defended his belt against a light heavyweight champ is unfair for fighters who are moving up and down in weight challenging themselves just to get that recognition....


Ok, i will go further back to remind u something. Pac became pound for pound # 1 when he defeated a dehydrated Oscar dela Hoya. Followed that success up with a scintillating knockout of Ricky Hatton in the Jr. welterweight division after beating Paul Malignaggi in the Welterweight division. That's 7 lbs. difference for Ricky Hatton as opposed to Dawson going down 5 lbs. for Ward. Pac's last big win was the demolition of Cotto in a rugged scrap previously agreed at a catchweight of 145 lbs.

I'm not trying to spark a side argument based on the simple facts i posted. It's me saying to u that a p4p rating could be improved upon even if a fighter stays and competes in a tough division he's in. Not necessarily for moving up and down. Good for Manny because he happened to face stiff competitions, even at certain stipulations for his step ladder campaign, to earn his promotion. Didn't Manny move up close to the top by dominating the super featherweight division, beating a dehydrated Morales and a game Marquez? it's like Ward making his presence felt by beating more talented guys in the Super Middleweight division.


krayz211 wrote:
Ward was impressive because he defeated a dehydrated Chad? yes, it was Chad who asked for it but lets be real, thats a soft Chad he beat up in there....Pac had a controversial win over a Pound for Pound fighter also in Marquez...who is Chad if you will compare him to the mexican legend? Cotto is also ranked number 1 and the champ at 154 when Floyd defeated him... in the other hand, Chad was never ranked in super middleweight never had a fight in 168 since '06 to be exact and now you telling me kuya na Ward was more impressive?



Did u get goose bumps seeing Manny pummeling Oscar dela Hoya and Cotto? Dawson fought hard until he got stopped. Dawson connected with more solid right hooks, left uppercuts and crosses more than Cotto hit Manny with jabs after running away from action since round 4. Again, that's me saying to u that Dawson was a live competitor than Dela Hoya and Cotto were after getting dominated early on. In fact, he was more aggressive but Ward sucked up his punches and just continued the pressure. Dawson was totally outclassed. How much factor was the dehydration? I don't have the answer just as i have no clear answer with regards to Cotto, Dela Hoya, Margarito and Hatton's condition when Pacquiao beat them.

Btw, Ward beat two p4p ranked fighters at their peak. Froch was in the top 10, not sure though if Dawson was reinstated after beating Hopkins. Abraham's only defeat before losing to Ward was technical a disqualification for hitting Dirrell while he was down. Kessler was an undefeated strong contender in the Super Middleweight tourney with 42 wins. Ward brought him back to earth with a lopsided decision win.

Cotto is not Mexican, he's a Puerto Rican legend. Could u say Cotto is still the same fighter since margarito and pacquiao stopped him years ago? Though i like the gallant effort he put up against Mayweather, Cotto was hanging in there for dear life in the later rounds. When did Floyd beat a p4p fighter? Shane Mosley back in 2010! Jesus,it's already 2012 and people still give him too much credit for fighting only two bouts since then. Since beating Allan Green in 2010, Ward has been on a tear, winning over top notch fighters and not even one of those wins was controversial or a close call.

Ring's pound for pound rating gets updated every month. The more active ones with strong, recent accomplishments are supposed to get the promotion. Clout and popularity, it seems, are paying for Floyd's and Pacquiao's rent-free stay at the top.

krayz211 wrote:
Any boxing fan knows who Andre Ward is....Im one of his fans but i have to admit that i thought Froch is going to win the super6... I dont have a problem with the fans who think Ward is the best pound for pound fighter today...what i am critical of actually is these writers from different other sites whos spreading false information to casual boxing fan.....Saying Ward is the best because he defeated a DEHYDRATED soft Chad is a joke...see, i can sound like these fanatic-writers too....

I can only imagine what kind of praise Dre would be getting from American writers if he had move up in weight and beats up the BAD Chad in his weight..I may sound stupid but its what it is... American writers tends to exaggerate everything when it comes to their boxers...


No offense meant here, u really sound stupid. American writers tend to exaggerate a little bit, some of them even had Manny among the Top 5 GOAT in his prime while majority here proclaimed him as the GOAT.

The sensitive topic of dehydration is double-edge knife. It cuts u too when u stab the other guy. Because Manny, on his way to the top, also benefited from it. Hype? Arum was also largely responsible for the superstar that he is now. Clever marketing and matchmaking.


Last edited by Lildevalt on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:44 pm 
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PacStorm wrote:
Romy Nabas wrote:
all i know is ward in a place in hospital.
pwede children ward, maternity ward, senior citizen ward etc. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

dawson is actually a creek. dawson's creek :lol: :lol: :lol:

Corny.

Logout mo nga si nabas. Log in mo si diskin. Mas mabenta jokes nun :biglaugh:

:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Lildevalt wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
There you have it....Pac and Floyds recent fights were also against top contenders of their weight division...some are also in the pound for pound list best in the world.....so to say Ward is more impressive lately is arguably...


Pac's recent fights, going back as far as Clottey in 2010, were against big but less talented men he was expected to beat. Only two of those men, Marquez and Bradley,were ranked in Top 10 p4p but were campaigning one or two divisions below. Going up in weight to challenge the best fighter in that division is also exposed to the same risk as going one division down. In Pac's last 5 fights, only Clottey and Shane Mosley were at their normal weight class. Marquez had to climb two divisions up to give pac hell which eventually ended up in a very controversial decision in his favor. Poetic injustice was rendered when Pac officially lost to Bradley who had to climb 7 lbs. north as opposed to Dawson shedding off 5 lbs. since his last fight. In boxing, ranking is always based on official results. A win is an official win no matter how hard we dispute the validity of the scorecards. Anyway, Pac had his share of hair-thinned decisions in the Marquez trilogy going his way. If we find something great in Pac's recent fights, why couldn't we find something to appreciate from the 2011 Ring Fighter of the Year who just dominated the toughest competition in the Super Middleweight division in years? It's me saying to u that Ward being more impressive than Pacquiao lately is true.


No matter what you say kuya Pac's recent opponents has more credentials than boxers Ward have fought in his recent bout...im sharing my thoughts on why they shouldnt put Ward ahead of Pac and Floyd because i feel that its an insult to the fighters who are moving up and down in weight to get that recognition..isnt thats how they install Pac and Floyd as the best fighter in the world? by moving up in weight fighting in their uncomfortable zone...thatz how they impressed the public...then here is Ward who beat up Chad who never fought at 168 for a long time suddenly became a superhero.....


Lildevalt wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
Andre Ward is good but what he showed is not yet enough to dethrone Pac/Floyd as the number 1 pound4pound best...putting him at the number 1 spot just bcoz he defended his belt against a light heavyweight champ is unfair for fighters who are moving up and down in weight challenging themselves just to get that recognition....


Ok, i will go further back to remind u something. Pac became pound for pound # 1 when he defeated a dehydrated Oscar dela Hoya. Followed that success up with a scintillating knockout of Ricky Hatton in the Jr. welterweight division after beating Paul Malignaggi in the Welterweight division. That's 7 lbs. difference for Ricky Hatton as opposed to Dawson going down 5 lbs. for Ward. Pac's last big win was the demolition of Cotto in a rugged scrap previously agreed at a catchweight of 145 lbs.

I'm not trying to spark a side argument based on the simple facts i posted. It's me saying to u that a p4p rating could be improved upon even if a fighter stays and competes in a tough division he's in. Not necessarily for moving up and down. Good for Manny because he happened to face stiff competitions, even at certain stipulations for his step ladder campaign, to earn his promotion. Didn't Manny move up close to the top by dominating the super featherweight division, beating a dehydrated Morales and a game Marquez? it's like Ward making his presence felt by beating more talented guys in the Super Middleweight division.



You are right when you said p4p rating could be improved even if a fighter stays and competes in his own division. But i guess you would also agree if i say fighters fighting outside of their weight classes are more impressive than fighters who stays in their comfortable weight zone.....


You cant compare Pac's case with Ward when Manny was campaigning in the higherweights hes giving the big guys fair deal,a level playing field. As for the Hatton fight we all know Hatton is the best at 140 right? hes unbeaten in that weight,Pac was also coming from 147 (defeating Oscar)going to the Hatton fight...so the truth is both of them went down.... it would be impressive if Ward had fought Chad at an even level playing field not bringing Chad all the way down to his division.but i doubt he would do it...


Lildevalt wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
Ward was impressive because he defeated a dehydrated Chad? yes, it was Chad who asked for it but lets be real, thats a soft Chad he beat up in there....Pac had a controversial win over a Pound for Pound fighter also in Marquez...who is Chad if you will compare him to the mexican legend? Cotto is also ranked number 1 and the champ at 154 when Floyd defeated him... in the other hand, Chad was never ranked in super middleweight never had a fight in 168 since '06 to be exact and now you telling me kuya na Ward was more impressive?



Did u get goose bumps seeing Manny pummeling Oscar dela Hoya and Cotto? Dawson fought hard until he got stopped. Dawson connected with more solid right hooks, left uppercuts and crosses more than Cotto hit Manny with jabs after running away from action since round 4. Again, that's me saying to u that Dawson was a live competitor than Dela Hoya and Cotto were after getting dominated early on. In fact, he was more aggressive but Ward sucked up his punches and just continued the pressure. Dawson was totally outclassed. How much factor was the dehydration? I don't have the answer just as i have no clear answer with regards to Cotto, Dela Hoya, Margarito and Hatton's condition when Pacquiao beat them.


When Manny is fighting Oscar nobody is giving him a chance...no one knows who is going to win when he was about to face Cotto...same with the Margarito bout...You see kuya, Catchweight or not there is always big risk for smaller fighter when his fighting big guys..Thats the difference between Ward and Pac...

Lildevalt wrote:
Cotto is not Mexican, he's a Puerto Rican legend. Could u say Cotto is still the same fighter since margarito and pacquiao stopped him years ago? Though i like the gallant effort he put up against Mayweather, Cotto was hanging in there for dear life in the later rounds. When did Floyd beat a p4p fighter? Shane Mosley back in 2010! Jesus,it's already 2012 and people still give him too much credit for fighting only two bouts since then. Since beating Allan Green in 2010, Ward has been on a tear, winning over top notch fighters and not even one of those wins was controversial or a close call.

Ring's pound for pound rating gets updated every month. The more active ones with strong, recent accomplishments are supposed to get the promotion. Clout and popularity, it seems, are paying for Floyd's and Pacquiao's rent-free stay at the top.


Im very much aware that Cotto is indeed Puerto Rican...where did you get hes Mexican?...

Kuya i agree with you about Floyd..but like what ive said...Majority of American writers turn to fan boys and exaggerate the achievements and everything when it comes to their boxers.....

Lildevalt wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
Any boxing fan knows who Andre Ward is....Im one of his fans but i have to admit that i thought Froch is going to win the super6... I dont have a problem with the fans who think Ward is the best pound for pound fighter today...what i am critical of actually is these writers from different other sites whos spreading false information to casual boxing fan.....Saying Ward is the best because he defeated a DEHYDRATED soft Chad is a joke...see, i can sound like these fanatic-writers too....

I can only imagine what kind of praise Dre would be getting from American writers if he had move up in weight and beats up the BAD Chad in his weight..I may sound stupid but its what it is... American writers tends to exaggerate everything when it comes to their boxers...


No offense meant here, u really sound stupid. American writers tend to exaggerate a little bit, some of them even had Manny among the Top 5 GOAT in his prime while majority here proclaimed him as the GOAT.

The sensitive topic of dehydration is double-edge knife. It cuts u too when u stab the other guy. Because Manny, on his way to the top, also benefited from it. Hype? Arum was also largely responsible for the superstar that he is now. Clever marketing and matchmaking.


All im saying kuya is they giving Chad so much attention that they even going to dethrone pac/floyd because Ward defeated Chad...I know Ward is a great fighter but how come no one is saying how he beat Chad?...do you think they would be making noise that way if Chad is from another country? hey im sorry but im not blind...and its understandable because this is still a sport,you still go for your countryman....

Kuya if you going to quote me next time please make it a lil bit easy for me to reply....its hard to reply this way...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:59 pm 
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Quote:
No matter what you say kuya Pac's recent opponents has more credentials than boxers Ward have fought in his recent bout...im sharing my thoughts on why they shouldnt put Ward ahead of Pac and Floyd because i feel that its an insult to the fighters who are moving up and down in weight to get that recognition..isnt thats how they install Pac and Floyd as the best fighter in the world? by moving up in weight fighting in their uncomfortable zone...thatz how they impressed the public...then here is Ward who beat up Chad who never fought at 168 for a long time suddenly became a superhero.....



This I have an issue with. If a fighter were to fight Roy Jones, Jr. today and win over him, would that necessarily be a significant victory for that fighter? Denis Lebedev stopped Roy Jones Jr. Jones Jr. has more credentials and was once the top dog in boxing by a mile , considered almost invincible in his prime. Does that count now when a fighter wins over him?

Ward fought and defeated fighters who are in their prime or close to it. Mosley lost to Alvarez in his next bout. Marqarito was stopped by Cotto after the Pacquiao fight. Froch rebounded with an impressive stoppage of the previously undefeated Lucien Bute. Arthur Abraham won three straight bouts after his loss to Andre. Sakio Bika won twice in row. Mikkel Kessler rebounded with three straight victories.

Let's go further back. Camacho defeated Duran and Leonard. Who among Pacquiao's last opponents or make that all of Manny's previous adversaries, have more credentials than these two fighters?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:32 am 
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krayz211 wrote:
Emmanuel53 wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
There you have it....Pac and Floyds recent fights were also against top contenders of their weight division...some are also in the pound for pound list best in the world.....so to say Ward is more impressive lately is arguably...

Andre Ward is good but what he showed is not yet enough to dethrone Pac/Floyd as the number 1 pound4pound best...putting him at the number 1 spot just bcoz he defended his belt against a light heavyweight champ is unfair for fighters who are moving up and down in weight challenging themselves just to get that recognition....



Big difference. Ward was impressive and no one came close to beating him. Pacquiao's win against Marquez was controversial and Floyd struggled against Cotto. Remember that Manny also officially lost to Bradley and wasn't as scintillating in his last three fights. The quality of Ward's wins against top tier opposition far outstrips Floyd's and Manny's victories. With the exception of that fight against Margarito, Manny also stayed put in the welterweight division.


Ward was impressive because he defeated a dehydrated Chad? yes, it was Chad who asked for it but lets be real, thats a soft Chad he beat up in there....Pac had a controversial win over a Pound for Pound fighter also in Marquez...who is Chad if you will compare him to the mexican legend? Cotto is also ranked number 1 and the champ at 154 when Floyd defeated him... in the other hand, Chad was never ranked in super middleweight never had a fight in 168 since '06 to be exact and now you telling me kuya na Ward was more impressive?


Your argument works both ways. Pacquiao fought Oscar at 147 a weight that the latter hasn't been in since 7 years ago. Let's substitute the names - Pacquiao was impressive because he defeated a dehydrated Oscar? yes, it was Oscar who asked for it but let's be real, that's a soft Oscar he beat up in there , and might I add , it was an aging fighter probably past his prime.
And Marquez - True, Manny was fighting a truly great fighter but one who most experts concede is at his best in the lightweight division or two divisions lower than welterweight.
And about Cotto? Did you say 154 lbs? Need I say more.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:58 am 
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assassin21 wrote:
freewheeze wrote:
so who is Gil P. Acosta, anyway?

why did he abandon ship? :biglaugh:


LOL, he never came back. the boxing fans ate him up with facts hahaha



owned. typical pactard


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:00 am 
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Babyface wrote:
This is further proof that Pactards only know about Manny Pacquiao and CLUELESS about any other boxer.



right on the button


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:04 am 
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Another proof a lot of pacnuthuggers really don't watch boxing.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:02 am 
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krayz211 wrote:
No matter what you say kuya Pac's recent opponents has more credentials than boxers Ward have fought in his recent bout...im sharing my thoughts on why they shouldnt put Ward ahead of Pac and Floyd because i feel that its an insult to the fighters who are moving up and down in weight to get that recognition..isnt thats how they install Pac and Floyd as the best fighter in the world? by moving up in weight fighting in their uncomfortable zone...thatz how they impressed the public...then here is Ward who beat up Chad who never fought at 168 for a long time suddenly became a superhero.....


By recent, are u talking about the last 3, 4, 5 fights?
Let's see. The last two p4p fighters, Marquez and Bradley, whom Pacquiao fought ended up controversially.
Majority in the boxing world thought he lost to Marquez and the same majority thought he won over Bradley yet he lost officially.

In contrast. Ward convincingly defeated two p4p fighters, Dawson and Froch, via stoppage and unanimous decision.

What about the others in between?
An aging Shane Mosley and over-the-hill Margarito are certainly no match in form comparison to an undefeated Kessler and former p4p member Arthur Abraham.

Andre Ward didnt become an overnight sensation, or superhero as u tend to exaggerate, by beating chad dawson. He was already a great fighter even before he agreed to fight Chad. Proof to that was an excellent accomplishment of having won the Super 6 Middleweight tourney. Last year, he bagged the Fighter of the year honor, garnering an overwhelming 45% of possible 100% votes from the ring panel. His nearest contender for the award, Donaire and Sergio martinez got 24% and 12% respectively. The remaining % were split up by Rios and Arce.

Weight issue. Since u dedicated ur only argument to that angle, it seems you're forgetting that both Marquez and Bradley had to move up in weight just to challenge Pacquiao. Two fighters he was supposed to dominate easily but the results were unexpected and unimpressive. Pacquiao's great accomplishments are far behind him. When was the last time he and Floyd moved up and down in weight? By recent, we're talking of the latest events. Pacquiao has been a welterweight fighter since 2009. Floyd fought only 3 times the last 3 years. Pac and Floyd defeated only one p4p fighter recently- Marquez, who was forced to compete at a disadvantaged weight. Floyd toyed with the Mexican,Pac flirted with defeat. Ward beating a game but dehydrated Dawson is far more impressive than Pac and Floyd beating/narrowly beating a bloated and aging counter puncher.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:21 am 
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krayz211 wrote:
You are right when you said p4p rating could be improved even if a fighter stays and competes in his own division. But i guess you would also agree if i say fighters fighting outside of their weight classes are more impressive than fighters who stays in their comfortable weight zone.....


You cant compare Pac's case with Ward when Manny was campaigning in the higherweights hes giving the big guys fair deal,a level playing field. As for the Hatton fight we all know Hatton is the best at 140 right? hes unbeaten in that weight,Pac was also coming from 147 (defeating Oscar)going to the Hatton fight...so the truth is both of them went down.... it would be impressive if Ward had fought Chad at an even level playing field not bringing Chad all the way down to his division.but i doubt he would do it...



Great that win over Hatton might be but that's ancient history. It has little to do with his p4p status right now. Mosley upset margarito and made it to the no. 3 p4p years ago. When he lost to Floyd, he was bumped off the top 10 p4p list. Simple as that. Once an elite fighter loses, he gets demoted. manny officially lost to Bradley but he retained his ranking. That's strange. You're crying about Americans lapping it up for Andre Ward but look what they're doing to Pacquiao.


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