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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:06 pm 
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Location: im in LA trick!
winning kinda feels good :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:34 pm 
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I hope Space Cadet would continue to sink his 3-point shots...because he can really help this team if his scoring behind the arc is consistent.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:36 pm 
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UE! wrote:
winning kinda feels good :D
I hope we will all feel good for at least 50 times this season :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:19 pm 
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Living Legend wrote:
KobeWanKenobi wrote:
Living Legend wrote:
All I can say is it’s nice to have the most talented player on your team but what’s the point of having him if he can’t work with his teammates.

Kobe considers himself as the leader of the Lakers but leaders are the one who’s suppose to get the most out of your teammates. The question you have to ask yourself if you’re a Laker fan, is Kobe fulfilling that role?


The difference here is management and teammates.

Jordan had success because he had Pippen who's also a vocal leader. Jordan was the bad cop, Pippen was the good cop in the team. Compare that with Odom who's not a vocal leader and can't play good cop to Kobe's bad cop.

On a position by position basis:

C - Longley, Cartwright, Perdue vs Bynum, Kwame, Mihm - edge in effectivity goes to the Bulls
PF - Horace Grant, Stacey King, Dennis Rodman vs. Cook, Turiaf, Madsen - edge goes to the Bulls
SF - Odom, Butler, Walton vs Pippen - Enough said, edge goes to the Bulls
PG - Fisher, Harper vs A younger Harper, BJ Armstrong, Kerr - Edge goes to the Bulls

Jordan had success because he had superior team mates. And above all, the above Bulls players knew how to play good individual and team defense. Something the Laker players aside from Bryant don't know what to do.

And then there's the Laker management who drafted:

Brian Cook over Leandro Barbosa and Josh Howard
Ms. Sasha Vujacic over Chris Duhon
Kareem Rush over Tayshaun Prince and Carlos Boozer

And how about not extending Devean George's rookie contract so when his rookie contract expired, the Lakers had to use their MLE to re-sign him missing them out on valuable free agents.

Or the fact that the Charlotte Hornets offered Baron Davis to the Lakers thrice (two were vetoed by Phil, the last they vetoed because of "health" reasons) and they rejected it.
Or the fact that Artest was ready to play for the Lakers and LA looked the other way.
Or the fact that Jerry Buss and Glen Taylor (of the Wolves) had a handshake deal to trade KG and Mitch couldn't land a suitable trade to satisfy McHale.

And the promise to win now to Kobe and yet not doing anything to win now.

Sure Kobe's at fault for a lot of things. But the team management has more to share in the blame.



We all know that Kobe’s teammate is not good enough to win the championship but that’s not the point. Some superstar calls their own teammates out because they want to motivate them, push them, make them go for more, that I can understand but that’s not what happened with Kobe. He called his teammates out not for the motivation but to prove a point. He puts them down to show the whole world that the player he plays with is not good enough, that’s your leader? I’m not saying it’s not true but is that what leaders do?

About the broken promises by the front office, does that give him the right to say all those things? (especially what he said about Bynum). Let’s use KG as an example, the guy has zero ring Bryant has 3. KG has missed the playoffs the last 3 years, Kobe made the playoffs last 2 years. Who do you think is more desperate Kobe or KG? That’s right KG but did you hear Garnett say something negative about his teammates NO. That’s what make me question Kobe’s leadership.

You think Mchale didn’t break any promises to KG? He probably did worse than our management but you never hear KG rip his own team the way Kobe did.


Speaking of leadership, Jordan called Kwame a F*cking F*gg*t. He told his teammates not to pass the ball to Bill Cartwright. That's why there's a good cop bad cop combination to ensure success. One puts the pressure of tough love, the other provides the big brother effect.

With respect to KG, he ripped his team a new hole after he left. Does that make him better than Kobe? Its always been said that one should be gracious when one has left and to only speak out when you have the power to change, not after you've left. That's basically crying over spilled milk.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:12 pm 
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NoYpI2K7 wrote:
I hope Space Cadet would continue to sink his 3-point shots...because he can really help this team if his scoring behind the arc is consistent.


I HOPE SPACE CADET WILL NEVER DO SKATEBOARDING ON ALLSTAR BREAK! :gun:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:19 pm 
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Bulls 0-2?..I heard the bulls' fans were chanting kobe's name tonight. wow


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:42 pm 
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Speaking of leadership, Jordan called Kwame a F*cking F*gg*t. He told his teammates not to pass the ball to Bill Cartwright. That's why there's a good cop bad cop combination to ensure success. One puts the pressure of tough love, the other provides the big brother effect.

With respect to KG, he ripped his team a new hole after he left. Does that make him better than Kobe? Its always been said that one should be gracious when one has left and to only speak out when you have the power to change, not after you've left. That's basically crying over spilled milk.



Why keep mentioning MJ in this discussion, this is not Kobe vs MJ. This is Kobe’s leadership compared to everybody and when you talk about leadership Magic, Bird and Russel are the names comes to my mind not MJ. Basketball is in pinoys blood, you don’t have to be a genius to figure out which player is a good shooter, which player is a good passer, which player has good instincts, which player is a good leader, etc. Kobe Bryant is the most skilled and talented player in the world right now but when it comes to the leadership department he is a still a question mark imho. Leadership is not all about winning championships, it’s about the players getting closer, better relationship on and off the court and more than once Kobe’s done the opposite. Rather than pulling the team together, he puts them down for his own personal agenda.

I respect that you idolize Kobe, there’s nothing wrong with that. Kobe fans keeps saying “you give him good players and he’ll lead them to a championship” I’m like they really have no clue what the word leadership means. Are you telling me that Kobe can only lead good players not bad ones? Are you telling me that he can only lead when he’s in a good situation? LEADERSHIP IS LEADERSHIP. It doesn’t matter what situation you’re in.

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- Magic Johnson


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:48 pm 
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For Better Or For Worse

Posted by Roland at November 2nd, 2007

So Phil Jackson and the Lakers find themselves right back where they’ve always been — struggling with Bad Kobe and hoping/praying for Good Kobe.

Perhaps the Lakers will find a way to trade Bryant, but they don’t really want to, because they don’t want to give up a superstar and get an odd collection of players in return.

That just doesn’t sell in Los Angeles, where star power seems to trump just about everything.

As badly as Bryant wants to get away from the Buss family that owns the team (except for Jeanie; there appears to be mutual admiration and respect there), he now finds himself coming round to the realization that his contract, his unique nature, heck, even his talent itself have made him very difficult to trade.

Bryant and his representatives have made a giant effort trying to disprove that notion. They’ve dialed up GMs and owners in Chicago and Dallas and elsewhere. They’ve posed every sort of deal.

None of it has floated.

Bryant and the Lakers seem to be stuck with each other.

For better or for worse.
Which means coach Phil Jackson is right back at the same old task — trying to get Bryant to play the right way, the team-oriented way.
To “involve his teammates.”

How many times have you heard that phrase?

There are critics who want to take this situation and make something bigger out of it. They project that Kobe Bryant is this metastasizing ego that will suck the life out of any team he plays for.

Tex Winter, Jackson’s longtime assistant, will tell you that the same issues emerged when they coached Michael Jordan in Chicago.
As Jackson told me once, Jordan’s hypercompetitive behavior could be “destructive” to his own teammates.
Jordan himself admitted to me that he could be ruthless and unkind, but that he had to find teammates who were mentally strong enough to play with him.

Winter said there is one major difference between Jordan and Bryant in these circumstances: Jordan played system basketball in college for Dean Smith at North Carolina.

Bryant came to the Lakers right out of high school and never had benefit of that college experience.

Still, Winter said, it’s a battle each night with those rare superior players to get them to quiet those raging competitive urges, to get them to “include their teammates.”

Bryant, of course, has expressed tremendous frustration with the Lakers and their talent level in recent months.

Some observers find delight in these circumstances because they believe Bryant’s ego set them up in the first place, when he seemed so eager to leave the Lakers in 2004 or force the trading of center Shaquille O’Neal.

The debate and the urban legends spawned by the Lakers in 2004 have been the subject of entire books, so we don’t want to get into that one here.

Let’s just say that the Lakers and Bryant are what they are right now. The coaches and Bryant and his teammates must revisit the issue of how they should play and what they can do to compete in the insanely difficult Western Conference.

It has always been that way with Bryant, just as it was always that way with Jordan. Phil Jackson has always used whatever means necessary to get his star player to walk the fine line to a team victory.

For example, I used to know Bryant a little bit. I wrote a book about him, Mad Game, The NBA Education of Kobe Bryant, in 1999 and used to spend a good deal of time talking to him about his struggles with his then veteran teammates.

I used to have Bryant’s “password” to his hotel phone, where I could call him on the road and chat about what he was going through.
In 2001, when Jackson and the Lakers were struggling to get Bryant to play the way they wanted him to play, I got a phone call from a member of the Lakers staff, who told me, “You better tell your boy to straighten up and play the team game. We need the good Kobe.”
My reply at the time was that Bryant wouldn’t listen to me on that level. “He doesn’t have to hear what I have to say,” I told the caller.
“He knows what to do, and he’ll do it,” I predicted.

I never told Bryant about the call, never brought up the subject, but sure enough down the stretch of the end of the regular season and through playoffs of 2001, Bryant played masterfully. And the Lakers went on to a second straight title.

Things began to change that spring of 2001. Bryant met Vanessa, who would become his wife.

He cut off the access of pests like me. And he was probably the better for it. No longer did he have to take calls from nosy journalists.
And he continued to show that when the team was strong and ready to win something, he knew how to trust, how to fit within the team concept, how to win.

Yet trust is not an easy thing for a superior talent. It wasn’t with Jordan. And it hasn’t been with Bryant.

He talked with me about trust with his teammates a while back. “It takes a long time to establish trust,” he said.

And it shifts on a nightly basis, he explained. If his teammates are playing well on a given night, then he’ll shift his game accordingly.
Jordan was much the same way. His teammates had to prove themselves to him. John Paxson once told me about the immense challenge of pleasing Jordan as a teammate.

“If you don’t show him you’re ready to play, he’ll eat you alive,” Paxson said.

Thus, the situation for Bryant has become immensely complicated this fall.

He remains with a team fighting injuries, with numerous young, untested players.

He wants to win. NOW.

His frustration and venting of his anger over the team’s roster has led to damaged relationships with his teammates, with the team’s owners, with the fans.

Worse yet, the Lakers face a difficult schedule to start the season.

These are not the circumstances that are conducive to Good Kobe, to a willing-to-fit-in-the-system Kobe.

These are the circumstances for desperate, angry, take-35-shots Kobe.

Clearly, something has got to give.

As fans, this is where we truly get our money’s worth.

Life usually comes around to where men have to confront themselves, where they have to address who they are, where they finally have to answer questions that they’ve spent their entire lives avoiding.

Now we get to see, who is Kobe Bryant?

And we get to find out if Phil Jackson really has all that patience and touch that make him worth $10 mil a season.

For better? Or worse?

One thing I know, Bryant always has a way of surprising people.

There were plenty of critics who said he would be a huge pain in the *** for Team USA this past summer.

Bryant responded by unleashing his full love for the game (and make no mistake, he has the biggest of loves for this game) in a bundle of youthful defensive energy.

Too bad he doesn’t have a better team around him this fall, a team so good that it takes the immense pressure off of him to deliver in an unbelievable way night after night.

The pressure remains very high on Bryant, because he has giant expectations of himself. He always has. Even since he was a 17-year-old kid.

It’s what fascinates me about him. He’ll do whatever it takes to be successful. He’ll rattle cages, and yell at very rich men. He’ll invite public ridicule and dare to be very, very different.

He’s always flown way high. With no net. Balls out and gunning.

For my money, that’s why he’s the most compelling story in sports today.

Nobody else is willing to risk this much.

This is not a game. There is much at stake. We could all witness a disgusting splat, the harshest ending for this cautionary tale.
What’ll it be, Kobe?

What is the answer that you insist on pushing so hard, so insanely, for?

For better? Or for worse?

Roland Lazenby is the author of The Show, The Inside Story Of The Spectacular Los Angeles Lakers In The Words Of Those Who Lived It


http://lakernoise.com/2007/11/02/for-be ... for-worse/

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Fear leads to Anger.
Anger leads to Hate.
Hate leads to suffering.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:05 pm 
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Living Legend wrote:
Quote:
Speaking of leadership, Jordan called Kwame a F*cking F*gg*t. He told his teammates not to pass the ball to Bill Cartwright. That's why there's a good cop bad cop combination to ensure success. One puts the pressure of tough love, the other provides the big brother effect.

With respect to KG, he ripped his team a new hole after he left. Does that make him better than Kobe? Its always been said that one should be gracious when one has left and to only speak out when you have the power to change, not after you've left. That's basically crying over spilled milk.



Why keep mentioning MJ in this discussion, this is not Kobe vs MJ. This is Kobe’s leadership compared to everybody and when you talk about leadership Magic, Bird and Russel are the names comes to my mind not MJ. Basketball is in pinoys blood, you don’t have to be a genius to figure out which player is a good shooter, which player is a good passer, which player has good instincts, which player is a good leader, etc. Kobe Bryant is the most skilled and talented player in the world right now but when it comes to the leadership department he is a still a question mark imho. Leadership is not all about winning championships, it’s about the players getting closer, better relationship on and off the court and more than once Kobe’s done the opposite. Rather than pulling the team together, he puts them down for his own personal agenda.

I respect that you idolize Kobe, there’s nothing wrong with that. Kobe fans keeps saying “you give him good players and he’ll lead them to a championship” I’m like they really have no clue what the word leadership means. Are you telling me that Kobe can only lead good players not bad ones? Are you telling me that he can only lead when he’s in a good situation? LEADERSHIP IS LEADERSHIP. It doesn’t matter what situation you’re in.


Leadership has limits. Can you win a war with Douglas MacArthur while using World War II B-29 bombers containing an atomic bomb each while going against an Air Force using the state of the art F-22 Raptors? Those bombers won't even reach their intended targets.

Incidentally, MacArthur is considered to be the among the greatest Generals in WWII. And yet he failed to win the Korean War because the UN handcuffed him from going up against China, while the US government prevented him from using the Atomic Bomb against the Chinese who were supporting the North Koreans.

Another example is Robert Jaworski. Considered to be one of the greatest motivational coaches in the history of the PBA. And yet count the number of titles he won for Ginebra. Just four in a coaching career of thirteen years.

Because Jaworski himself was a victim of SMC's favoritism and was thus operating on a different budget compared with sister team San Miguel. Whereas San Miguel had the budget to get marquee names like Ricardo Brown and Allan Caidic from other teams to support their original NCC roster, Jaworski had to make do with discards and castoffs of other teams or from simply draft picks.

What does all of these show? That while leadership is important, so is the supporting cast the leader gets.

_________________
Fear leads to Anger.
Anger leads to Hate.
Hate leads to suffering.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:30 pm 
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KobeWanKenobi wrote:


thanks for the info bro.. :toast:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:41 am 
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haha thats nice bro bryant

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:47 am 
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Lakers rout sleepy Suns in Phoenix home opener 119-98

PHOENIX - The Phoenix Suns got home at 4 a.m., then sleepwalked through their home opener. The result was a 119-98 rout at the hands of the Los Angeles Lakers.

More games like this and Kobe Bryant might not want to leave Los Angeles.

Vladimir Radmanovic made all four of his three-pointers and scored 19 points, and Bryant added 16 points and 11 rebounds Friday night in a game that was not nearly as close as the final 21-point margin.

The only interesting moment down the stretch came when Suns coach Mike D'Antoni became livid when Lakers coach Phil Jackson called a timeout, right after the Suns called one, with 4:55 to play and Phoenix trailing 111-78.

"Yeah, I was pretty upset," D'Antoni said. "I thought he disrespected our players. But he likes to play the mind games and that's fine. He might want to try to do it in playoff time when we bust them every year."

Jackson said he was just getting a mandatory timeout out of the way.

"He wasn't thinking straight. That's all," Jackson said of D'Antoni. "He'd understand that if he thought about it for a second. I think he thought I was trying to showboat or grandstand. But when you have a mandatory timeout coming in a minute and a half or something like that, just get it out of the way."

The capacity crowd at US Airways Center booed the home team, often, for the first time in recent memory as the Suns lost at home to the Lakers for the first time in the regular season since Victoria's Steve Nash came to Phoenix in 2004.

"We're clearly not the same team we've been in the past yet," Nash said. "There are a lot of things we didn't do out there on the court, combined with the fact that we got home at four in the morning and maybe we aren't in shape for that yet."

Nash was referring to the team's arrival in Phoenix in the predawn hours from their season-opening trip to Seattle. That's one reason not to make too much of the blowout, Jackson said.

"I'm sure they got in really late and they looked like it," he said. "It's tough from their home fans in that kind of a game. We played. Don't take anything away from what we did. They just didn't play the way they usually do."

Phoenix, the three-time defending Pacific Division champion, fell behind by 17 in the second quarter, 29 in the third and an embarrassing 33 in the fourth, giving up a seemingly endless series of layups, dunks and open jumpers.

"For whatever reason, the juice wasn't there," D'Antoni said, "and it's got to be. We can't be small, light and slow, and that's what we were tonight."

Radmanovic, questionable before the game because of a sore throat, shot six-of-seven. Bryant, coming off a 45-point game in Los Angeles' season-opening loss to Houston, was just one of the guys in this one as five Lakers reached double figures.

"We expected them to be a little tired from last game, but Phoenix is a good team," Radmanovic said. "It's not a team you're going to beat by 30 points every night. It felt good."

The Lakers shot 57 per cent, 8-of-13 from three-point range. Andrew Bynum had 14 points and 13 rebounds.

Bryant said no one should get carried away by one big victory.

"We don't have to get too ahead of ourselves," he said. "We just have to stay in the minute. We have to get out of here, get some rest and get ready to practice tomorrow because that's really when you become a better team. You have to play just as hard at practice tomorrow as you did tonight."

Amare Stoudemire was 2-for-10 shooting for four points and had one rebound in 24 miserable minutes for Phoenix.

Nash had 19 points but only three assists and sat out the fourth quarter, as did most of the Lakers' starters. Leandro Barbosa led the Suns with 23, 17 in the fourth quarter. Shawn Marion had 14 points and 10 rebounds, and Grant Hill scored 12 in his first home game for the Suns.

Notes: Nash was presented with the J. Walter Kennedy citizenship award before the game. The award, announced earlier, is for outstanding community service. ... D'Antoni has 199 victories as Phoenix coach. ... The Lakers beat Phoenix for the third time in their last 13 regular-season meetings, and just the second in 12 tries with Nash in the Suns lineup. ... Former Suns owner Jerry Colangelo will be inducted into the team's "ring of honor" at halftime of Sunday night's game against Cleveland. ... The Suns were outrebounded 54-34.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article ... pURJOeW_3w

the highlight for me was when D'Antoni barking on the lakers bench and PJ told him to sit his *** down!! :lol: ..... :smoke:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:24 am 
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ahhhhh Phoenix just had an off night 8)

Lakors had a suferb exekution, intention, and aggressiveness. I'd hope they would carry this complete team effort night in night out. theyve palyed this well before and 2night was one of them

Suns are asking Grant Hill 35 min per game?

combine Lakers A game with sort of off-night for Phoe = blowout. but that past (3 -13) reg seas record vs Phoe doesnt seem very likely futurewise

could Kobe's soap opera drama really have sparked a flame under his teamates out to prove something

1-1

80 episodes remain in the season long soap opera hollywood drama. with Kobe doing a great job at the Brittney Paris Hilton role


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:04 am 
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highlights from ESPN for you guys who didnt watch the LAKERS bring their A game last night.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271102021


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