Pacland's Philippine Boxing Forum

Discussion on boxing and other sports, Filipino greats and anything under the sun.
It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:01 pm

All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:28 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:59 am
Posts: 29208
By Ellen Tordesillas, VERA Files
Posted at 09/20/2012 8:45 PM | Updated as of 09/20/2012 9:02 PM


Sen. Antonio Trillanes IV acted as the Philippines’ backdoor negotiator with China from April to July this year, communicating with Chinese foreign affairs officials in a role, Presidential Spokesperson Edwin Lacierda said, in which he won “minor successes.”

Lacierda, though, did not give details.

Trillanes said President Benigno S. Aquino III gave him the assignment verbally and could not produce any documents to prove he was acting in an official capacity. The role was fraught with deniability, with Malacanang even saying it was Trillanes who sought the job.

Based on various interviews with Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario, senior foreign affairs officials, Chinese sources and with Trillanes himself, VERA Files assembled the following timeline of Trillanes’ involvement in the dispute between the Philippines and China over Panatag, also called Scarborough Shoal:

April 8, 2012

The Philippine Navy’s lone modern naval patrol frigate, BRP Gregorio del Pilar, apprehended eight Chinese fishing boats with sizable quantities of endangered marine species, corals, live sharks and giant clams.

The Chinese immediately sent sometime three Chinese Marine Surveillance (CMS) to protect their fishermen. BRP Gregorio del Pilar was withdrawn in consonance with the agreed terms of engagement of “white to white, gray to gray.”

“White to white” means civilian ships are to deal only with civilian ships, in this case the Philippine Coast Guard to the Chinese Marine Surveillance. “Gray to gray” means navy to navy.

The Philippine government sent Philippine Coast Guard and Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources patrol ships to the uninhabited rocks 124 nautical miles off Zambales province in northwestern Philippines. The Chinese sent more reinforcement.

At the height of the standoff, the number of Chinese vessels and fishing boats reached almost 100.

April 14, 2012

On the diplomatic front, talks were deteriorating with Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario accusing Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing of bad faith.

“It appears there is an element that is lacking in our negotiations. I seek a deeper element of trust from our Chinese friends,” Del Rosario said in a press statement.

Chinese sources said the Chinese leadership was confused with all the mixed signals they were getting from Malacañang, the Department of Foreign Affairs and the media, and they wanted to get directly to President Aquino.

May 2012

As tensions between Manila and Beijing worsened, Executive Secretary Paquito Ochoa asked Trillanes whether he “would like to help,” Trillanes said in interviews on Wednesday. He said he saw nothing out of the ordinary with the request since he had earlier also gone to Vietnam on Malacanang’s request.

Trillanes said he looked up Chinese officials he had met in his earlier official visit. Sources said some Chinese-Filipino supporters also facilitated contacts in Beijing.

Preliminary meetings were held in Manila and in Bejing to make sure both sides had the adequate authority from the highest level of government.

One of the officials Trillanes was talking with was Fu Ying, vice minister of Foreign Affairs in charge of “Asia, boundary and ocean affairs and translation and interpretation” and fourth in the hierarchy in China’s foreign ministry. She was China’s ambassador to the Philippines from 1998 to 2000.

In one of his trips to Beijing, Trillanes reported to the President by phone. The President informed him that he will be on speaker phone so the other cabinet members can listen in and be guided accordingly. Del Rosario was among them.

But Del Rosario also had his own backdoor negotiator. In one meeting with the President in Malacanang, Del Rosario was asked by Aquino who authorized the trip of Manuel V. Pangilinan to China to talk with the China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) officials.

Pangilinan is chairman and chief executive officer of Philex Mining Corp. that has secured the contract with the government to explore in Reed Bank, an area near Palawan also claimed by China.

Pangilinan apparently had a different account of his trip than what China said he requested of CNOOC. Del Rosario owned up to “sort of encourage Pangilinan to go and open another channel to China thru the private sector since the political channel has failed.”

Del Rosario said it was consistent with the President’s directive. It was at this point that he offered, “I serve at the pleasure of the President.”

Simultaneous’ pullout

Days before President Aquino left for London and the United States, Fu Ying was in Washington D.C and met with Kurt Campbell, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs.

DFA and Chinese sources said Campbell suggested a simultaneous withdrawal of vessels from Panatag Shoal to de-escalate the tension.

A DFA official said United States Ambassador to Manila Harry Thomas relayed to Del Rosario that Beijing has agreed to a simultaneous withdrawal.

This is the “agreement” Del Rosario said Beijing reneged on. He referred to this agreement in several statements.

A DFA statement attributed to Undersecretary Erlinda Basilio, who was in Italy at that time it was released, explained why there was no ASEAN communiqué in the last meeting of foreign ministers of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Cambodia. The statement said:

“On the reference to ‘duplicity and intimidation,’ the Philippines forged an agreement with a neighboring country for the simultaneous pullout of all vessels inside the shoal, which we undertook in good faith on June 4. Furthermore, the neighboring country agreed to remove its barrier at the entrance of the shoal.
“Yet to this day, the neighboring country has not fulfilled its obligations under the agreement and has maintained its ships inside and outside the shoal, as well as its barrier, in its aim to establish effective control and jurisdiction in the shoal and surrounding waters.”

Chinese sources said what happened in Washington was that Fu Ying told Campbell she would relay the suggestion to Beijing.

Bejing said they would “gradually pull out” of the disputed shoal. “There was never a commitment for a total pullout,” a Chinese source said, explaining that “they have a domestic audience to consider.”

China has always been against the intervention of the U.S. in conflict in Asia and sources said the Chinese officials did not appreciate it that the Americans were negotiating for the Philippines.

First week of June

Based on Thomas’ confirmation, Del Rosario ordered the pullout of Philippine vessels in the middle of the night. By morning, the President was displeased that Del Rosario had made that order. So he called Trillanes to ask the Chinese why their ships remained in the area when the Philippines had already pulled out.

Trillanes was unaware of such an agreement coursed through the U.S. Following the President’s orders, he called his counterpart in China to follow the Philippine move, since both countries had already agreed on a “simultaneous pullout.”

The Chinese sent word to Aquino, through Trillanes, that they would issue a statement to explain the back-to-port order of their ships, and asked that they be given 48 hours to relay the orders to appropriate agencies in Beijing.

Aquino departed for London and the U.S., relieved that the tension had de-escalated.

The Philippines said it pulled out its ships to safety because of the bad weather in Scarborough Shoal. China for its part said they will go back to port to re-supply.

But before China could complete the pullout, the DFA issued a statement accusing China of reneging on an agreement. This angered China, which insisted there was no such agreement.

The Pangilinan connection

As questions were being raised over Trillanes’ role as backdoor negatiator, Pangilinan has come out accusing Trillanes of fabricating lies. Trillanes had earlier said Pangilinan had a hand in agitating anti-China sentiments among Filipinos.

Pangilinan and Del Rosario go back a long way. Del Rosario has been involved in companies run by Pangilinan, being director of the Philippine First Pacific Co. (Hong Kong), PT Indofood Sukses Makmur Tbk, the largest food company in Indonesia; Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co., Metro Pacific Investments Corp., Philex Mining Corp., Metro Pacific Tollways Corp., Metro Pacific Tollways Development Corp., Manila North Tollways Corp. and ABC Development Corp.

Del Rosario had headed the development of Pacific Plaza Towers, Metro Pacific Corp.'s signature project. He is said to have introduced Pangilinan to the Salim family of Indonesia, which is behind First Pacific.

Pangilinan is chairman and chief executive officer of Philex Mining Corp., which owns 74.79 percent of Philippines Petroleum Corp. Philex Petroleum owns 64.45 percent of Forum Energy Plc. (FEP), an oil and gas exploration company incorporated in the United Kingdom with focus on the Philippines.

FEP owns 70 percent of the Service Contract 72, a seven-year exploration contact in the Reed Bank awarded by the Philippine government in 2010. SC 72 contains the Sampaguita Fields said to contain up to large amounts of oil and gas. FEP is committed to dig two wells in Sampaguita by August 2013 under its work program with the government. It is currently looking for foreign partners to invest in the project, including CNOOC. —with Charmaine Deogracias

(VERA Files is put out by veteran journalists taking a deeper look at current issues. VERA is Latin for “true.”)

_________________
================================================================================================


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:31 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:47 am
Posts: 25533
Location: water tower
PRIVILEGE SPEECH OF SEN. ANTONIO TRILLANES IV

“Kung gusto ko isasagasa ko. Kung ayaw ko, uupuan ko.”

“Gusto ko happy ka.” Iyan po ang campaign slogan ng ating senate president noong siya ay kandidato pa noong 2010 elections. Bumenta po iyan; maraming pong sumakay dyan. Pero ang nakakalungkot, sa pagpatakbo ng senado, malayo ito sa katotohanan. Kasi po, ang kalakaran talaga dito ay: “Kung gusto ko, isasagasa ko; kung ayaw ko, uupuan ko.”

There are many instances to illustrate this prevailing policy under Senator Enrile and some of my colleagues, (particularly, Senator Pia Cayetano and Senator Joker Arroyo), have been at the receiving end more often than others. As for myself, being a newcomer, and the youngest at that, while I was uncomfortable being shoved around every now and then, I gamely took everything as part of the learning process and figured that’s just how it is here in this august chamber. I am a very patient man. Well, not necessarily before the Oakwood Incident in 2003 but seven and a half years in prison can do that to you sometimes. But one incident a couple of months ago jolted me into the realization that this shabby treatment and even shabbier policy should not be tolerated anymore.

Last July 24, a day after the President’s SONA, a caucus was called at the Senate President’s office. We were not informed of the agenda so; I assumed right away that it was probably about something really important. Eventually, of course, I learned that the principal item on the agenda was not about national security, or even of national significance. It was about the local bill on the division of the province of Camarines Sur. Without elaborating on the details of what happened in that caucus, suffice to say that I was shoved aside for the nth time. Eto na naman po, “kung gusto ko, isasagasa ko.”

I got out of that caucus feeling trampled upon by a bully determined to get his way. My neophyte instincts were telling me then to just keep the peace and get out of his way. But then, the public servant in me just couldn’t let this thing pass.

As a matter of public policy, dividing provinces or carving out new ones is not beneficial to the state or the people of the affected province. Otherwise, let’s just divide all the big provinces for as long as they meet the requirements as provided for in the law and we’ll probably end up with around 200 provinces in total. A few exceptions could be, when there are two distinct and warring tribes occupying one province or; when a province is composed of two large islands that are administratively cumbersome. But in the case of Camarines Sur, neither of these conditions is present.

Of course, there is the cop-out “we should let the people decide” argument. I’ve heard this from the Senate President several times that I was almost convinced that he actually believed it. Almost, because if he really does, then I would immediately initiate the division of his Cagayan province and expect from him the same zeal and vigor that he has in rushing this bill. This argument, if allowed to be the basis for the approval of this bill, will, henceforth reduce the whole process of succeeding similar bills, from the committee hearings, interpellations and up to the third reading, as a mere ministerial duty of the Committee on Local Government and the Senate because at the end of the day, if anyone would oppose, somebody would just say, “we should let the people decide.”In my limited understanding of my job description, that is not why we are here. If, as a Senator of the republic, a representative of the people, you see that something is patently detrimental to the interest of the State, in this case, the Province and the public, you should not let it pass or, at the very least, oppose it. That is the essence of a representative democracy. Then again, our Senate President is a very smart man and I know for sure that he knows this. But with his, “kung gusto ko, isasagasa ko” policy, he will use such arguments if he finds it convenient.

Now, this is the sad part. Everyone in this august chamber knows that this bill is gerrymandering in its worst kind, particularly, one that would provide for new elective positions to accommodate two 3-term congressmen. But if it were so, why would our Senate President be particularly interested to the point of straining relations with members of the very Senate that he leads? Is it just to please Congressman Villafuerte? And why would he rush it to the point of dictating on a chief of staff of a fellow senator on what his principal should do and when he should schedule his committee hearings? Worse, our Senate President didn’t even cancel the session at the height of the habagat rains when all government agencies already did, just so this bill could be tackled.

The Senate President even said that this bill should be passed immediately to relieve him of the pressure. What, the great Senator Enrile could be pressured? I remember him saying otherwise, during the last impeachment proceedings. Is the pressure coming from Congressman Villafuerte, who we see often loitering about at the senator’s lounge, the senate president’s office, and even personally lobbying to senators while we are in session? As persistent as Congressman Villafuerte is, I doubt it if our Senate President would be pressured by him. Annoyed, probably, but not pressured. Of course, President Aquino cannot possibly be the source of the pressure since this bill isn’t even in the president’s legislative agenda.

I kept on looking for a possible explanation for our Senate President’s irrational behavior and it finally came in the form of a news report by Ms. Christina Mendez of the Philippine Star dated 06 September 2012. In the report, Ms. Mendez’s source revealed that it was Congresswoman Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo who personally called up the Senate President to speed up the measure. This information was also validated by one of our colleagues.

With this totally unexpected twist, everything seemed to fall into place. Now, there remain only two possibilities: that our Senate President is deeply indebted to GMA; or that he is a GMA lackey. Either way, I have lost trust, faith and confidence in Senator Enrile’s capability to lead the senate along the path consistent with the reform agenda that I espouse.

I, therefore, manifest that I am leaving the majority and, consequently, joining the minority effective this day.

Thank you.


----


mabuhay ka senador trillanes!!!


ibagsak ang mga trapos! :D

_________________
magpalit man ng balat ang ahas...ahas pa rin. yun yun! - by Palekoy


http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=212005&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:32 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:59 am
Posts: 29208
thread ko to ugok :biglaugh:

_________________
================================================================================================


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:36 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:47 am
Posts: 25533
Location: water tower
freewheeze wrote:
thread ko to ugok :biglaugh:



neneng thread mo to? edi isaksak mo sa balon balonan mo!!


hihihihi bawal daw mag-post dito sa thread ni neneng dahil sa kanya ito :biglaugh:

_________________
magpalit man ng balat ang ahas...ahas pa rin. yun yun! - by Palekoy


http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=212005&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:10 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:06 am
Posts: 8159
Backdoor mess. Lack of foreign policy expertise.

_________________
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
Go Gilas, Go Azkals, Go Lance, Go Fed, Go Heat!!!
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:32 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:47 pm
Posts: 23418
back channeling can be useful, and again if trillanes is to be believed (no dispute yet from dfa) he contributed a lot in diffusing the crisis with china.

authorized by then president JFK, bobby kennedy used back channeling also during the cuban missile crisis during the 60s. it helped diffuse a tense situation and averted what may have likely been a nuclear war.

_________________
"I will make you an offer you can't refuse." - Michael Corleone


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:59 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:59 am
Posts: 29208
don robert wrote:
back channeling can be useful, and again if trillanes is to be believed (no dispute yet from dfa) he contributed a lot in diffusing the crisis with china.

authorized by then president JFK, bobby kennedy used back channeling also during the cuban missile crisis during the 60s. it helped diffuse a tense situation and averted what may have likely been a nuclear war.


nakakatawa lang bakit hugas kamay ang palasyo.

:?

_________________
================================================================================================


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:53 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:08 am
Posts: 14610
Location: Terra; Gaia ; Ar-i-du
me tatlong barko pa daw sa scarborough sabi ng AFP.

kanina lang sa DZMM.

_________________
“You create your own universe as you go along.” ― Winston Churchill

"When a table is normalized, the non-key columns depend on the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key." - a DBA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:04 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:47 pm
Posts: 23418
freewheeze wrote:
don robert wrote:
back channeling can be useful, and again if trillanes is to be believed (no dispute yet from dfa) he contributed a lot in diffusing the crisis with china.

authorized by then president JFK, bobby kennedy used back channeling also during the cuban missile crisis during the 60s. it helped diffuse a tense situation and averted what may have likely been a nuclear war.


nakakatawa lang bakit hugas kamay ang palasyo.

:?


it's to be expected, back channeling does not usually toe the official stance. kumbaga sa relasyun, MU lang at di pwede pang sabihin na mag ON na. :D

kaya nga ungas to si Enrile eh, dala na rin siguro sa pagka pikon sa astang yabang ni trillanes, kung ano ano na pinagsasabi dun.

baka wala nang makipag back channel sa atin in the future...

_________________
"I will make you an offer you can't refuse." - Michael Corleone


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:21 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:26 am
Posts: 8330
don robert wrote:
freewheeze wrote:
don robert wrote:
back channeling can be useful, and again if trillanes is to be believed (no dispute yet from dfa) he contributed a lot in diffusing the crisis with china.

authorized by then president JFK, bobby kennedy used back channeling also during the cuban missile crisis during the 60s. it helped diffuse a tense situation and averted what may have likely been a nuclear war.


nakakatawa lang bakit hugas kamay ang palasyo.

:?


it's to be expected, back channeling does not usually toe the official stance. kumbaga sa relasyun, MU lang at di pwede pang sabihin na mag ON na. :D

kaya nga ungas to si Enrile eh, dala na rin siguro sa pagka pikon sa astang yabang ni trillanes, kung ano ano na pinagsasabi dun.

baka wala nang makipag back channel sa atin in the future...

Buti naman binigyan mo ng showbiz twist para maintindihan ni FWheeze :biglaugh:

_________________
I'm right 98% of the time. Who cares about the other 3%?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:37 am 
Offline
Cruiserweight
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:39 pm
Posts: 3771
Location: Jah
Kelan pa naging expert si Trillanes sa ganitong sitwasyon? just asking :hat:

_________________
WATCH YOUR FAVORITE SPORTS ONLINE FOR FREE!!! ==> http://myboxingtv.blogspot.ca/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:59 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:47 pm
Posts: 23418
PacStorm wrote:
don robert wrote:
freewheeze wrote:

nakakatawa lang bakit hugas kamay ang palasyo.

:?


it's to be expected, back channeling does not usually toe the official stance. kumbaga sa relasyun, MU lang at di pwede pang sabihin na mag ON na. :D

kaya nga ungas to si Enrile eh, dala na rin siguro sa pagka pikon sa astang yabang ni trillanes, kung ano ano na pinagsasabi dun.

baka wala nang makipag back channel sa atin in the future...

Buti naman binigyan mo ng showbiz twist para maintindihan ni FWheeze :biglaugh:


medyo nahihila na si freeze sa dark side. :D

_________________
"I will make you an offer you can't refuse." - Michael Corleone


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:32 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:26 am
Posts: 8330
PacStorm wrote:
don robert wrote:
freewheeze wrote:

nakakatawa lang bakit hugas kamay ang palasyo.

:?


it's to be expected, back channeling does not usually toe the official stance. kumbaga sa relasyun, MU lang at di pwede pang sabihin na mag ON na. :D

kaya nga ungas to si Enrile eh, dala na rin siguro sa pagka pikon sa astang yabang ni trillanes, kung ano ano na pinagsasabi dun.

baka wala nang makipag back channel sa atin in the future...

Buti naman binigyan mo ng showbiz twist para maintindihan ni FWheeze :biglaugh:

don robert wrote:
medyo nahihila na si freeze sa dark side. :D

Brain freeze daw :mrgreen:

I understand the sentiments of those who are disappointed with govt. Yung KKK ni PNoy, whether real or imagined, nakakasira sa kanyang imahe.

As regards to Trillanes, I dont know whether I should praise his initiative or condemn it. Siguro depende sa resulta. Kasi none of us are privy to what Trillanes told China anyway.

_________________
I'm right 98% of the time. Who cares about the other 3%?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:41 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:08 am
Posts: 14610
Location: Terra; Gaia ; Ar-i-du
PacStorm wrote:
I understand the sentiments of those who are disappointed with govt. Yung KKK ni PNoy, whether real or imagined, nakakasira sa kanyang imahe.

As regards to Trillanes, I dont know whether I should praise his initiative or condemn it. Siguro depende sa resulta. Kasi none of us are privy to what Trillanes told China anyway.


Hilo ka ba? :D

kung imagined yan hindi makakasira yan.

medyo isip isip at bawas idol idol.


Yung sagot mo sa kabila walang solution.( marco and Juan )

_________________
“You create your own universe as you go along.” ― Winston Churchill

"When a table is normalized, the non-key columns depend on the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key." - a DBA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:55 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:26 am
Posts: 8330
miron_lang wrote:
PacStorm wrote:
I understand the sentiments of those who are disappointed with govt. Yung KKK ni PNoy, whether real or imagined, nakakasira sa kanyang imahe.

As regards to Trillanes, I dont know whether I should praise his initiative or condemn it. Siguro depende sa resulta. Kasi none of us are privy to what Trillanes told China anyway.


Hilo ka ba? :D

kung imagined yan hindi makakasira yan.

medyo isip isip at bawas idol idol.


Yung sagot mo sa kabila walang solution.

:lol:

Di ko alam kung talagang untouchable mga kaibigan ni PNoy or if this is the price he has to pay AT THIS TIME to have his way in govt. Ibig ko sabihin, nothing is black or white, specially in politics. He can't have all his erring friends prosecuted or punished. Baka walang matira syang kakampi, maiwan puro kaaway.

Opkors Im still hopeful that PNoy will have Puno, Torres, et al investigated and/or prosecuted. If he doesn't he'll be answerable to the next admin, same as what happened to Gloria when she turned a blind eye on her cronies :D

_________________
I'm right 98% of the time. Who cares about the other 3%?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

philboxing.com | pinoygreats.com
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group