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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:17 pm 
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:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:59 am 
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Although the thread is in politics section, its title and the core matter under discussion appear to have religious repercussions. So, allow me to share some thoughts on original sin based on what I have gathered from some trusted source.

Duterte said, “Who is this stupid God? This son of a [expletive] is then really stupid. . . . You were not involved but now you're stained with an original sin [sic]. . . . What kind of a religion is that? That's what I can't accept, very stupid proposition.”

Duterte is, of course, not the only person to object to the doctrine of original sin. The 5th-century Pelagian heretics said Adam’s sin affected only himself. However, man in his fallen state cannot approach God apart from God's grace. Unfortunately, this Pelagian mindset still persists in people who claim they can have a relationship with God on their own terms and that they should not be punished for the sins of Adam and Eve.

And those critics are correct, in part.

God should not punish us because of Adam and Eve’s sins, because we were not involved in their sins. That’s why original sin is not a punishment for other people’s sins, but a consequence of their sins. If we use Mang Zorro’s trusted source (PRMO thread: YOUR TAKE ON PRES. DUTERTE vs. CATHOLIC CHURCH?), the Catechism says that “original sin is called ‘sin’ only in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘committed’ -- a state and not an act. Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice” (CCC 404-405).

Unlike personal sin, original sin is not an evil thing we’ve done but an absence of God’s grace in our souls. The reason this absence of grace is called original sin is because it is a consequence of the very first sin humans committed.

When our first parents disobeyed God, they lost the gift of God’s favor that protected them from death and suffering. After losing this grace, they could not pass it down to their descendants, who in turn could not pass it down to us. Adam and Eve’s disobedience corrupted our human nature and made it possible for humans to suffer and die. Baptism cannot prevent our physical deaths, because it does not change our physical nature. However, it does change our spiritual nature, so through baptism we are saved from spiritual death by being united to Jesus Christ.

But is God unfair or “stupid” for allowing us to be born in this state of sin?

It isn’t fair to punish future generations for the crimes of their ancestors; but, as we’ve seen, original sin is not a punishment.

It is a fact of life, however, that future generations either benefit or suffer from the actions of their ancestors. For example, you may have known someone who has more than enough money to pay for college because his grandfather invested money in an educational trust for that purpose more than sixty years ago. You may also have a female friend who struggles with infertility because her grandfather contracted syphilis when he was a young man.

In both cases, what makes the future children’s situation “fair” or “unfair” is not whether they received something from their ancestors (because everyone does that) but rather the nature of what they received. And we can understand how an absence of goodness, such as original sin, can be fairly said to endure even though it was the fault of our ancestors.

Imagine a man is given an inheritance that makes him rich, but in his greed he steals more money from the estate of his deceased relative. The man’s wife and children, who didn’t know he did this, are thrilled about never having to worry about money again -- until the police arrive and arrest the man, and the courts take back all the money he inherited. The courts don’t punish the man’s family members, because they did nothing wrong. However, the man’s family members still suffer because they would have been blessed with riches if he had not stolen more money.

In the same way, we would have enjoyed supernatural gifts if Adam and Eve had not fallen from grace and rebelled against God. If Adam, Eve, and all our other ancestors had not sinned against God, then we too would have been born in the blessed state of original justice and holiness. In that case, I doubt you or I would say, “It’s not fair I am born into such a good condition, because I did nothing to earn it!” If you believe in the concept of inheritance, be it financial, genetic, or spiritual, then you have to accept that human beings are capable of leaving either good or bad inheritances for their children.

Fortunately, Scripture tells us that “by his great mercy we have been born anew to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and to an inheritance which is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you” (1 Pet. 1:4). We can claim this inheritance because through baptism we cease being children of Adam, who inherited a fallen human nature, and become children of God, partakers of his divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4).

Far from being “stupid,” God in his majestic providence took humanity’s greatest defeat and turned it into an opportunity to show us his greatest victory.

:celebrate:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:29 am 
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dan44 wrote:
Dahil sa mga Dilawan naging popular si Digong , sawa na kasi sila mga Salita nang dilawan at ginamit pa ang diyos sa pang uto


nila.... :lol:


Can anyone educate me. Ano ba talaga ang nangyari sa panahon ng dilawan na parang nababaliw na yata ang buong bansa sa galit at kahit ang taong nagyayabang sa pagpatay, pambabae, pagmumura , panghahahalik sa publiko, pag hahamon at pang iinsulto sa Diyos ay naging mas mabuti pa kesa mga dilaw.
Any dilaw na makapag paliwanag. Ano ba talaga ginawa ninyong kasalanan na pati ang Diyos ay in insulto na nila sa kanilang galit sa mga dilaw.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:16 am 
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Mang enigma, please enlighten me further how baptism can save..
Thanks. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:29 am 
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` mang jabz,,,, pansin ko lang....,

' panay singit mo ng biblical referrnces, tanung sa isyung non-prmo,,
dito at sa ibang tred,, tanung sa bible verses refs, etc,,,on politics topics..
'

pero sa PRMO treds on many subjects about bible, other holy books ..,
di ka naman sing-active o' kasigasig..?

Image;;;;

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:25 pm 
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yung hinde nag pa binyag mag pa binyag na kayo :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:50 pm 
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zorro05 wrote:
` mang jabz,,,, pansin ko lang....,

' panay singit mo ng biblical referrnces, tanung sa isyung non-prmo,,
dito at sa ibang tred,, tanung sa bible verses refs, etc,,,on politics topics..
'

pero sa PRMO treds on many subjects about bible, other holy books ..,
di ka naman sing-active o' kasigasig..?

Image;;;;



gurang na kasi ya mang zorro. mid 80s


he wants to know how his soul will be saved :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Romy Nabas wrote:
zorro05 wrote:
` mang jabz,,,, pansin ko lang....,

' panay singit mo ng biblical referrnces, tanung sa isyung non-prmo,,
dito at sa ibang tred,, tanung sa bible verses refs, etc,,,on politics topics..
'

pero sa PRMO treds on many subjects about bible, other holy books ..,
di ka naman sing-active o' kasigasig..?

Image;;;;



gurang na kasi ya mang zorro. mid 80s


he wants to know how his soul will be saved :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol:

Para ma-enlighten tayo mang zorro... :D

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A GIFT…THAT’S WHY IT IS CALLED THE PRESENT “.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:05 pm 
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`` aba eh kung sa 'enlightenment' ng inyung kaluluwa...,
si tserman goreng ang hingan nyu ng advice...''


Tunay at walang halung boladas, wala pang donasyun.

`Image'''

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:59 pm 
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JABEZJ wrote:
Mang enigma, please enlighten me further how baptism can save..
Thanks. :D

Does baptism save you?

Manay Jabz, I’m not sure whether or not you have quoted the word “save” out of context from my post above. As Mang Gorio had suggested, it would be better to move this sort of discussion to PRMO section. Nevertheless, allow me to present a partial (although lengthy) response to your question:

First of all, pardon me for jumping into conclusion that you’re probably a Baptist. Nothing wrong with that, but the irony about Baptist theology is that it actually de-emphasized baptism. What mattered was being "born again" or "saved," if we had responded to an altar call and "accepted Jesus into our hearts." This personal experience was all that was necessary to assure us of eternal salvation. Right?

Secondly, when fundamentalist Baptists come around to discuss theology with you, they would usually proceed to take you along the famous "Romans Road." This is a simple Evangelical process that leads a person to salvation through the most basic Christian truths taken from St. Paul’s epistle to the Romans. It goes like this:

The first verse is Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." After establishing that you are a sinner, in Romans 6:23 St. Paul reminds you that "the wages of sin is death." The second part of that verse gives the promise that "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:8 tells us that "while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." Romans 10:13 says that "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved," and Romans 10:9 says that "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved."

Well, I think we agree on every point. But, the question is: why don’t we go any further along the road? You know, St. Paul goes on to say just how this salvation happens. He gives us an objective and solid way to know that we really have been made one with Christ.

But first, we agree (don’t we?), that salvation means we die with Christ so that we may have new life?

So, how does this happen?

You may say: "You have to accept Jesus. Believe in him in your heart and confess with your lips."

Yes, we believe that is necessary, but there is more to it than that. In addition to believing and confessing with our lips, we need to be baptized. At the beginning of Romans 6, St. Paul actually explains how we share in the death and new life of Christ: It is through baptism.

The beginning of Romans 6 says, "Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." This idea that we are made one with Christ through baptism is reiterated by Paul in Colossians 2:12, and in Galatians 3:27 he likens baptism to "being clothed with Christ."

Furthermore, the fuller idea of salvation being a union with Christ fits with much more of the New Testament, which speaks time and again of being in a profound union with the living Lord -- rather than simply being saved or justified by a personal belief in Christ.

Baptism takes the believer from the simple repentance, belief, and profession of faith into a more mysterious identification with Christ, in which He is the vine, and we are the branches, in which we die with him so that we might rise to new life.

In Acts 2, when St. Peter is preaching at Pentecost, his hearers ask what they must do to be saved, and he replies, "Repent and be baptized."

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:53 pm 
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TheEnigma wrote:
That’s why original sin is not a punishment for other people’s sins, but a consequence of their sins.


well said!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Amiga mag pa binyag ka muna :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:31 pm 
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dan44 wrote:
Amiga mag pa binyag ka muna :lol:


bruha ka talaga, amiga Dan! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:45 pm 
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dan44 wrote:
Amiga mag pa binyag ka muna :lol:



german cut bai

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Marami klase ang binyag depend sa hinde gusto ni Amiga :biglaugh:

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