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 Post subject: Understanding Salvation
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:58 pm 
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What is salvation?

Salvation the bible talks about is the process of saving man from eternal death.

God made a law that the penalty or wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death…

When a man sins, and every man does, he is doomed to suffer the penalty of death from which there is no deliverance.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…

The penalty of death means to perish. To perish is the opposite of having everlasting life. Unless the doomed man is saved and is granted everlasting life, he will perish.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:00 pm 
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Why salvation?

God is creating man in his image according to his likeness (Genesis 1:26). If man is to die for his sin and that all men sin, no man would ever acquire God’s image and become a being in God’s likeness.

Salvation rectifies the flaw in the creation process. By having a being die in man’s stead, that man is saved from his predicament of suffering eternal death. He then proceeds to the next stage of his creation which is the image of God building phase.

After a man is saved from perishing he becomes, in a sense, a new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:59 pm 
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May I ask, Sir, but who created sin?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Mang Heruino wrote:
May I ask, Sir, but who created sin?

Sin materializes because of the law. Had there been no law, there would be no sin.

Romans 7:7...I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:24 pm 
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The process of salvation

Salvation is a process because it involves steps some of which have been since done and the others still to be done in this age and in the ages yet to come.

Steps which have since been done:
1. The Word, a God being becoming flesh so he could die for all men’s sins.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us…

2. Death of the Jesus Christ who had been divested of his God nature of being immortal.

Philippians 2 (New Living Translation):6 Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

1 Corinthians 15 (New Living Translation):3 I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said.

3. God’s raising back the dead Jesus Christ to life assuring the resurrection of men who have since died and are still to die the first death. There is a resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15 (New Living Translation):16 And if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins. 18 In that case, all who have died believing in Christ are lost!

Acts 13:30 But God raised Him from the dead.

4. God’s drawing some to Jesus Christ in this age, granting them repentance, baptizing them and giving them the Holy Spirit. Unless God draws a person to Jesus Christ, that person cannot go to Christ of his own volition.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Step still being done in this age until the return of Jesus Christ – God’s still drawing some more to Jesus Christ in this age, granting them repentance, baptizing them and giving them the Holy Spirit of God

The next age starts at the return of Jesus Christ and the men who survive the great tribulation and the war between Christ’s forces and those of Satan will undergo their process of salvation. This period is for “a thousand years”.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Those who have since died in this age and those who would die in the battle between the human forces of the released from restraint Satan after the 1,000 years reign of Jesus Christ will undergo their process of salvation. That age is referred to as the great white throne judgment period.

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:40 pm 
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Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
Mang Heruino wrote:
May I ask, Sir, but who created sin?

Sin materializes because of the law. Had there been no law, there would be no sin.

Romans 7:7...I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”




Ah ok. So WHO created sin, sir? Is there anybody who did create it?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:11 am 
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Mang Heruino wrote:
Ah ok. So WHO created sin, sir? Is there anybody who did create it?

The violator or the law "creates" sin. "Create" is not the really the appropriate word for sin. You might be referring to the being who produces the effect called sin. The answer is the being or person violates the law produces sin.

It is the law which is made or enacted. God is the lawmaker. When the law is violated sin occurs. I'll cite the birth of the first sin ever committed.

The first sin committed is covetousness. The most beautiful and powerful of all spirit beings God created was made administrator of this earth long before the start of man's creation.

Ezekiel 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre (referring to Lucifer), and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:
“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

After a long time of being just the earth's boss, he eventually coveted to not only expand the extent of his authority. He coveted God's throne itself. He wanted to replace God and be "the Most High".

Isaiah 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

The covetousness which developed in him the bible calls iniquity or sin.

Ezekiel 28:14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

Iniquity or sin was not created. It was found in Lucifer from the moment covetousness got the better of him. Sin materializes in a person who violates God's law. James describes the appearance of sin as being given birth.

James 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:48 am 
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Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
The violator or the law "creates" sin.

Instead of "or" it should be "of". The violator of the law "creates" sin.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:55 am 
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Having been saved, is the man assured of attaining eternal life?

From God’s point, yes, but from man’s, no. The reason is man’s freedom of choice.

Salvation is one thing while the acquisition of eternal life is another matter.

Salvation is good as finished after a man is granted repentance, submits to baptism and is given the Holy Spirit of God. At this point the particular person has been saved. He has been freed.

But a saved person is not all. That person must have the character of God to deserve to be changed to spirit like God.

God does not impose his will. God wants man to freely choose to have God reign over him. Man’s freedom of choice will still have to be exercised and he has his lifetime after he has been saved from the penalty of death to prove that he really submits to God’s rulership over his ways until it becomes his nature.

The period of overcoming after a person’s salvation is characterized by the building on or acquiring the image or character of God.

The person who overcomes and proves that he really wants God to be his God is gifted with eternal life.

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

There is no compulsion with God. Those who choose not to have God reign over him after they have been saved from the penalty of death will be re-sentenced to suffer the second death from which there is no more redemption and will be slain.

Luke 19:27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’”

The person who has been previously saved and given the Holy Spirit of God was merely given a guarantee of eternal life.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

This guarantee will be recalled or “taken away” from the person who chooses not to have God reign over him.

Luke 19:26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

While God guarantee’s eternal life after he saves man from the penalty of death, it is up to man to show God that he is fit to have eternal life and be with God for eternity.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:41 pm 
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“Once Saved Always Saved”?

No. Christ’s sacrifice applied to the person redeemed from the death penalty erases the sins he committed prior to his calling to salvation. The person saved from these sins still needs to be saved from the penalty of sins he could still commit afterwards being still in the flesh.

The saved person is still prone to committing sin. After receiving the Holy Spirit of God, the person’s old sinful nature is still within him. This old nature the bible calls “the old man” continuously exerts immense pressure to the person who is at times defeated in the struggle causing the person to sin.

Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

When the saved person sins again he merits the penalty of death. But Jesus’ faith in him makes him repent and Jesus the Advocate would plead God to forgive him.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

The pressures to succumb to “the passing pleasures of sin” (Hebrews 11:25) the new man faces are aplenty. The new man should simply work out to preserve the salvation he had been privileged with and endure to the end.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling…

Mark 13:13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

The spirit imbued person has to let Christ live his life for him. By having the mind of Christ (Philippians 2:5) the person is in the sense letting Christ live in him.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Christ’s life lived in the man who had been reconciled to God through Christ’s death shall save the man.

Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

A person saved from the sins he committed prior to his repentance and baptism still needs to be saved from the penalty of the sins he could commit while working on to acquire the image of God during his lifetime in the flesh.

The previously saved person who tires and chooses to no longer overcome would forfeit even the salvation he had first been granted.

Luke 19:26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:51 pm 
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I like your post. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:00 pm 
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psi wrote:
I like your post. 8)

Thanks. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
Mang Heruino wrote:
Ah ok. So WHO created sin, sir? Is there anybody who did create it?

The violator or the law "creates" sin. "Create" is not the really the appropriate word for sin. You might be referring to the being who produces the effect called sin. The answer is the being or person violates the law produces sin.

It is the law which is made or enacted. God is the lawmaker. When the law is violated sin occurs. I'll cite the birth of the first sin ever committed.

The first sin committed is covetousness. The most beautiful and powerful of all spirit beings God created was made administrator of this earth long before the start of man's creation.

Ezekiel 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre (referring to Lucifer), and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:
“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

After a long time of being just the earth's boss, he eventually coveted to not only expand the extent of his authority. He coveted God's throne itself. He wanted to replace God and be "the Most High".

Isaiah 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

The covetousness which developed in him the bible calls iniquity or sin.

Ezekiel 28:14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

Iniquity or sin was not created. It was found in Lucifer from the moment covetousness got the better of him. Sin materializes in a person who violates God's law. James describes the appearance of sin as being given birth.

James 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin...






So do you think that God already knew it that Lucifer will someday go against his creator?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Sir, how are you related to that Almeda who leads the Jesus Miracle Crusade; the one who once went into the Abu Sayyaf camp saying he'll bring the message to the terrorists but was eventually kidnapped. Just asking

:)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:35 am 
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Mang Heruino wrote:
Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
Mang Heruino wrote:
Ah ok. So WHO created sin, sir? Is there anybody who did create it?

The violator or the law "creates" sin. "Create" is not the really the appropriate word for sin. You might be referring to the being who produces the effect called sin. The answer is the being or person violates the law produces sin.

It is the law which is made or enacted. God is the lawmaker. When the law is violated sin occurs. I'll cite the birth of the first sin ever committed.

The first sin committed is covetousness. The most beautiful and powerful of all spirit beings God created was made administrator of this earth long before the start of man's creation.

Ezekiel 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre (referring to Lucifer), and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:
“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

After a long time of being just the earth's boss, he eventually coveted to not only expand the extent of his authority. He coveted God's throne itself. He wanted to replace God and be "the Most High".

Isaiah 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

The covetousness which developed in him the bible calls iniquity or sin.

Ezekiel 28:14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

Iniquity or sin was not created. It was found in Lucifer from the moment covetousness got the better of him. Sin materializes in a person who violates God's law. James describes the appearance of sin as being given birth.

James 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin...






So do you think that God already knew it that Lucifer will someday go against his creator?


sorry for interrupting Mang Heruino

If you ask me that question.. I'll say that "I don't know my friend.. only God knows.. if you believe in God.."
What I believe is that God lives beyond our Space-Time Dimension environment.
but I'm also convinced that there are many questions that have no answers base on our human perception.


but my impression of sin is that it comes from our own selfish desires or instincts..

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