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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:25 pm 
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This thread is started to discuss the question from the thread "WHat's the Secret of Iglesia Ni Cristo?"
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=90105&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=345
genetophile wrote:
roland21 wrote:
if religion will not save you, eh bakit po itinatag ni Cristo ang Iglesia nia?.. --> mat. 16:18

Naku roland, isa pang thread yan. Gusto mo ipakilala kita kay Ka Epi? Mas may tiyaga yun sumagot.

The answer to the question is so that Christ will be revealed to those whom God will draw to Jesus and for them to really know who he and what his purpose is. This answer is shown in Matthew 16:13-20 where in verse 18 Jesus declared that he will build his Church:

Matthew 13:13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

The conversation between Jesus and his disciples started with the question as to who men say Jesus was (verse 13). The disciples stated the guesses of men (verse 14) which were incorrect. Then God revealed who Jesus was to Peter who spoke out Christ's identity (verses 15-17). After the disciples were told that he was "the Christ, the Son of the living God”, Jesus told them that upon him (Christ) he will build his Church (verse 18).

The Church is linked with knowing Jesus as the Christ or the Messiah or the Savior. The answer then to the question why did Christ build his Church is so that those who will be made a part of it will know him and his purpose. (Knowing who Jesus is and his purpose in becoming flesh is another topic for discussion.)

In verse 20, Jesus specifically commanded "the disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ". Those who will not be made part of the Body of Christ, the Church that Jesus built, in this age will not know. and will not even be interested in knowing. who "the Son of Man" is.

Comments are welcome. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:35 pm 
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18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.


Ka Epi, sino daw yung "rock" na sinasabi ni Jesus?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:29 am 
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genetophile wrote:
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18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.


Ka Epi, sino daw yung "rock" na sinasabi ni Jesus?

Jesus Christ is the "spiritual Rock" referred to in Matthew 16:18. Jesus' identity is the subject matter of the conversation in Matthew 16:13-20. For such an important undertaking of building the Church, the foundation Rock could not be Peter, the stone, as many misunderstand, but Christ.

Jesus has always been the Rock even during Moses' day. Paul is specific as to who is "that Rock".

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:10 am 
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Therefore, hindi si Peter. kasi pagkakaalam ko Peter means "pebble." tama ba ka epi?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:54 pm 
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genetophile wrote:
Therefore, hindi si Peter. kasi pagkakaalam ko Peter means "pebble." tama ba ka epi?

Pebble or stone. Peter is not the center of the conversation in Matthew 16:13-20. Even the matter of the "keys of heaven" were addressed to the disciples present, including Peter, and not to Peter only.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:25 pm 
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What is the Church Jesus built?

To really understand why did Christ build his Church requires knowing the identity of what is the Church Christ had built.

The Church refers to and is made up of people drawn by God to Jesus, granted repentance, and gifted with the Holy Spirit. It is people who comprise the Church and each one is a member of it.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

The "the body of Christ" is the Church of which Jesus is the head.

Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

No one can apply to be part of the Church. It is God who draws a person from this world to get interested in Jesus and his message.

John 6:44, 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

When a drawn person positively responds to his calling, he will be saved from the death penalty of the sins he committed in ignorance as symbolized by the granting of repentance and his submission to baptism. He is then gifted with the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

It is at the point of receipt of the Holy Spirit when a person becomes part of the body of Christ. He becomes Christ's. Otherwise, "he is not His".

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Over the years people who have been imbued with the Holy Spirit have died and new people are put into the body to take their place. The Church, not a building made of wood and stone but composed of people, continues to exist from the day it was built until this day and up to the day of Jesus' return.

The Church never ceased to exist over the years "and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" as Jesus said (Matthew 16:18).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:08 pm 
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The Church is built to resume man's creation

Man's salvation is not the primary purpose in Christ's building the Church. Salvation is just a necessary step before man's creation could proceed.

When Adam and Eve failed to eat the fruit of the tree of life and instead ate the fruit of the forbidden tree, man's creation stalled. By bringing the death penalty upon themselves through the breaking God's commandment, Adam and Eve, and their descendants after them, needed to be saved before the creation process could resume.

Adam and Eve knew God. But soon thereafter, outside of the Garden of Eden, man no longer know who his creator is.

Jesus, as the executive of the God family, is the creator of all things "and without him nothing was made that was made".

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

It was the Logos (Word) who spoke and implemented the fashioning of the physical phase of man's creation.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

The world in general do not know God. It is God who introduces Jesus Christ to men whose ears he heals to be able to hear God's introduction.

Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!”

In turn, it is Jesus who makes known the Father to the called out ones.

John 17:25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.

By knowing who Jesus and what his purpose is, the sheep (those who are Christ's) know and follow his voice.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

The person who is in Christ, recognizes Jesus as the Logos or Word - the Creator - and follows him. That person would proceed to the spiritual phase of the creation process which is the making of God's image of love in that person. Such person, redirected from this world's ways, is effectively "a new creation".

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

For man to be made part of the Body of Christ is not primarily for his salvation but for the creation of God's image in him to proceed.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Brother Epi, these are very good posts.

Allow me to ask, does it mean -according to your post- that the CHURCH isn't a building or an organization?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:53 am 
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Mang Heruino wrote:
Brother Epi, these are very good posts.

Allow me to ask, does it mean -according to your post- that the CHURCH isn't a building or an organization?

According to the bible "the CHURCH isn't a" physical building made of wood and iron and concrete but "an organization" or a grouping of people who are as a whole considered as a "building" in the spiritual sense.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.

A spiritual building the foundation laid for which is Jesus Christ himself.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Individually, the Holy Spirit indwelt persons are temples of God or dwelling places of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

I haven't read in the bible of "Church" being used to refer to a physical building.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:47 am 
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As the building blocks of the Church the members are taught about God's government and led in the Godly image building process

It is only in the Church Jesus Christ built where knowing God and his purpose of creating man in his image are taught. One of the crucial lessons is to continually emulating and having the humble mind of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

The converts are instructed to work on being transformed in outlook from being worldly by the renewing of the mind to conform to the "will of God".

Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

The object of the transformation is the attainment of "the glory of the Lord", that "same image from glory to glory".

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

God's image to be transformed into is love "for God is love".

1 John 4:8...for God is love.

It is only when man shall have overcome and developed God's image love in him, with the help of the Holy Spirit, that he shall be changed at Christ's return to spirit and finally become in the likeness of God who is spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

God is not discriminating for a select few and disregarding the many. God will continue to create his image of love on everyone and finish his creating them by changing their physical bodies into his likeness of being a spirit. It is just a matter of order. A few people were taught and led personally by Jesus Christ who then teach and lead the people drawn by God and made part of the Church in this age.

Jesus built the Church to prepare a group of people who would teach the majority when their time comes for them to be saved from death and their turn for the Godly image building process to proceed until they are likewise changed to spirit in God's likeness. And this is in the age following the next age the bible refers to as the great white throne judgment.

Revelation 5:10 And have made us (them) kings (mayors, governors) and priests (teachers) to our God;
And we (they) shall reign on the earth.”

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books ("biblios" or the books of the bible) were opened.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:04 am 
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The Church is a Movement. It has the Faith and Testimony of Jesus Christ. The Movement adheres MOST closely to the Faith that Jesus taught and "left" with his Apostles and Disciples before accending to his Heavenly Kingdom.

WORSHIP GOD ONLY.... not man, not virgin mary, not an idol, not a tree with lights.....

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:07 am 
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Welcome back toj! :D


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:41 pm 
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Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
Welcome back toj! :D


ngayon ko lang naita yan si bro t.o.judah. 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:09 pm 
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toj is an old hand in PRMO, a 7th day adventist.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:18 pm 
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In the Church the government of God is re-introduced to increase in scope no end

When Adam and Eve sinned, God's creation of man was stayed until this flaw in the creation process is remedied. The considered possibility of man sinning and of Christ's paying for the penalty of death (Revelation 13:8 ) so that man's creation would not fail had to be implemented. And Christ did become flesh (John 1:14) shedding off his God nature (Philippians 2:6-8) for the purpose of death and he did die.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

Having been raised from the dead (Acts 13:30), Christ's creation of man could already proceed. Man has to be re-introduced to his creator, be saved and progress to the Godly image building phase of his creation.

The individuals indwelt by the Holy Spirit became parts to form the spiritual body of Christ, the Church of God (Acts 20:28). In this group of people the government of God was re-introduced to man who, in the process of building God's image in him, struggles in his lifetime to submit to God's reign until the end of his life or Christ's return whichever comes first.

This government of God now operating only in the Church Jesus built, will expanded to be enforced on this world at Christ's return. It will be at that time when Isaiah's prophecy of God's government being upon Jesus' shoulder will be fulfilled and it will increase no end.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will beno end...

The related thread, "Where is the Church Jesus Built?", is in this link:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=158517


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