Pacland's Philippine Boxing Forum

Discussion on boxing and other sports, Filipino greats and anything under the sun.
It is currently Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:56 pm

All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:27 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:22 am
Posts: 8389
This is from the thread "The Ten Commandments are not for Christians!" posting.php?mode=quote&f=20&p=4314537

jafra wrote:
Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
jafra wrote:
don't you think that's kind of odd God the father made his rules then his son Jesus made his own? aren't you cherry picking here? :shock:

No. If you think YHWH is God the Father, you're wrong. The Father does not deal directly with man. Not yet. YHWH is the same being who became Jesus Christ.

Can u pls. quote a bible verse that supports ur contention?

Yes, Jesus is the YHWH of the Old Testament and not the being Jesus revealed to his disciples as the Father.

Comments are welcome. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:18 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:24 pm
Posts: 15802
Location: in your dreams
Can you explain why YHWH is so vengeful, wrathful, cruel, etc while Jesus of the NT is as meek as a lamb?

_________________
Outwork your talent.
-Kevin McHale


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:37 am 
Offline
Light Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 1401
Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
This is from the thread "The Ten Commandments are not for Christians!" posting.php?mode=quote&f=20&p=4314537

jafra wrote:
Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
No. If you think YHWH is God the Father, you're wrong. The Father does not deal directly with man. Not yet. YHWH is the same being who became Jesus Christ.

Can u pls. quote a bible verse that supports ur contention?

Yes, Jesus is the YHWH of the Old Testament and not the being Jesus revealed to his disciples as the Father.

Comments are welcome. :)

Show me a verse that supports your contention ka epi. 'coz some bible scholars belive yahweh and elohim are used interchangeably. Yahweh when it refers to a God who relates to people and Elohim when refering to God the maker but i haven't come across suggesting Yahweh and Jesus is the same. Care to clarify?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:39 am 
Offline
Light Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 1401
kajo wrote:
Can you explain why YHWH is so vengeful, wrathful, cruel, etc while Jesus of the NT is as meek as a lamb?

There was no anger management services at that time bro. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:52 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:47 pm
Posts: 10057
`

Ka Epie, the subject can be viewed in different perspective,
using the Bible as reference/proof, to substantiate a concurrence,
but also, views/opinions on the contrary, again using the
Bible as source.

_________________
,
"...Lets do it to them before they do it to us..." Sgt. Stan Jablonski, Hill Street Precinct


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:04 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:59 am
Posts: 5571
Location: Planet Earth (PB# 0494)
From my understanding Yahweh, Jehova or Elohim are the names referred to the God the father.

_________________
He who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man. - Author: A fool man.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:47 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:22 am
Posts: 8389
kajo wrote:
Can you explain why YHWH is so vengeful, wrathful, cruel, etc while Jesus of the NT is as meek as a lamb?

The explanation is summed up in one word, purpose.

When man was kicked out from the Garden of Eden, he was cut off from his close relationship with God. Being under Satan's control, every man who was born from Adam and Eve was prone to sin and each man did sin. Sin merits the penalty of death. Since all men sinned, all deserve to die.

As life giver, God has power and right to take it back. Because of sin, YHWH wiped out people and animals through the earth wide flood save Noah and his family. YHWH likewise killed the people of Sodom and Gomorrah because of sin. Etc.

From among the sinful people, God retained his prerogative to choose those he can work with. Those he chose to work with were surrounded by idolatry and who even practiced idolatry themselves. Being immersed in their beliefs of idols which were made of wood and stone, YHWH has to catch attention to point out who the real God is.

How he executed the death sentences of the sinners make people say "YHWH is so vengeful, wrathful, cruel, etc."

Jesus' becoming a man was for the purpose of dying for all men's sins. He had to be humble to be able to allow himself to be abused by his own creation.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:54 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:22 am
Posts: 8389
zorro05 wrote:
`

Ka Epie, the subject can be viewed in different perspective,
using the Bible as reference/proof, to substantiate a concurrence,
but also, views/opinions on the contrary, again using the
Bible as source.

My posts will be to prove the thread title. Discussing with students of the bible who think otherwise would be a good bible study exercise.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:00 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:22 am
Posts: 8389
jafra wrote:
Show me a verse that supports your contention ka epi. 'coz some bible scholars belive yahweh and elohim are used interchangeably. Yahweh when it refers to a God who relates to people and Elohim when refering to God the maker but i haven't come across suggesting Yahweh and Jesus is the same. Care to clarify?


pan_ni_pakyaw wrote:
From my understanding Yahweh, Jehova or Elohim are the names referred to the God the father.

YHWH, I AM, JEHOVA, LORD God, was heard and seen in the OT. But no one has heard nor seen the Father except Jesus Christ only.

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

John 5:37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me [Jesus], has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form."

John 6:46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He [Jesus] who is from God; He has seen the Father."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:20 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:22 am
Posts: 8389
Another name of YHWH, I AM, in the OT is Jesus in the NT

I AM is God's name introduced to the children of Israel in Moses' day.

Exodus 3:13-14 Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Jesus told the Jews of his day he was the I AM even before Abraham.

John 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:21 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:46 am
Posts: 11461
Location: KSA
How about abraham? just curious with this verse, has he seen god?

Abraham Pleads for Sodom
16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[c] 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The LORD said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33 When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Abraham has three visitors during that time and two men left and went to sodom and gomorah and the other one stayed with abraham whom i assumed he constantly talking with when he pleads to save the people of sodom and gomorah. is he god that abraham talking with?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:10 pm 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:22 am
Posts: 8389
pilyo2bay wrote:
How about abraham? just curious with this verse, has he seen god?

Abraham saw the LORD, the being who became Jesus Christ.

Genesis 18:1 Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:05 pm 
Offline
Light Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:28 am
Posts: 1437
Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
Yes, Jesus is the YHWH of the Old Testament and not the being Jesus revealed to his disciples as the Father.

Comments are welcome. :)


therefore there are two jesus's.

1. jesus the yhwh of the old testament, and
2. the other being, the jesus that revealed to the disciples.
?

_________________
Rev. 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:39 pm 
Offline
Light Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 1401
Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
jafra wrote:
Show me a verse that supports your contention ka epi. 'coz some bible scholars belive yahweh and elohim are used interchangeably. Yahweh when it refers to a God who relates to people and Elohim when refering to God the maker but i haven't come across suggesting Yahweh and Jesus is the same. Care to clarify?



YHWH, I AM, JEHOVA, LORD God, was heard and seen in the OT. But no one has heard nor seen the Father except Jesus Christ only.

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

John 5:37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me [Jesus], has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form."

John 6:46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He [Jesus] who is from God; He has seen the Father."


That's what Jesus said in the New Testament. Strangely, the New Testament clearly states the name Jesus but in the old testament, Jesus was never mentioned . It sounds more like the authors of the new testament read the old testament, revised it and made their own version as a less violent one. I don't think anybody would have known Jesus without reading the New Testament.
Genesis 17:1 proved Abraham has seen and spoke to God contrary to the verse you posted above. Would you say Abraham is Jesus too? :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:33 am 
Offline
Heavyweight
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:22 am
Posts: 8389
jafra wrote:
That's what Jesus said in the New Testament. Strangely, the New Testament clearly states the name Jesus but in the old testament, Jesus was never mentioned . It sounds more like the authors of the new testament read the old testament, revised it and made their own version as a less violent one. I don't think anybody would have known Jesus without reading the New Testament.
Genesis 17:1 proved Abraham has seen and spoke to God contrary to the verse you posted above.

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.

The God being who created, dealt and interacted with man in the OT, as expressed in the thread title, is the same being known in the NT as Logos, Lamb, Jesus Christ.

The LORD who told Abram, as Abraham was known then, that he was "Almighty God" is the same being Christians know as Jesus Christ.

John 5:37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me [Jesus], has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form."

jafra wrote:
Would you say Abraham is Jesus too? :?

No.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

philboxing.com | pinoygreats.com
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group