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 Post subject: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:37 am 
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This THREAD is for ALL :D. Pls post any comments...within the forum rules .

--

What is your interpretation of these:


“Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”
-Romans 10:13





"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:58 am 
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Mod, without digging deeper yet into the verse, this is just my personal opinion...
Take note of the words: CALL and SAY....

These two words can already tell the difference between the two verses...

Here are the meaning of the words:


CALL/kôl/

verb
1.give (an infant or animal) a specified name.
2.cry out (a word or words).
3.contact or attempt to contact (a person or number) by phone.
4.order or request the attendance of.
5.announce or decide that (an event, especially a meeting, strike, or election) is to happen.
6.(of a person) pay a brief visit.
7.(of an umpire or other official in a game) pronounce (a ball, stroke, or other action) to be the thing specified.
8.cause (a subroutine) to be executed.

noun
1.a cry made as a summons or to attract someone's attention.
2.the characteristic cry of a bird or other animal.
3.an instance of speaking to someone on the phone or attempting to contact someone by phone.
4.a brief social visit.
5.an appeal or demand for something to happen or be done.
6.an order or request for someone to be present.
7.(in sports) a decision or ruling made by an umpire or other official, traditionally conveyed by a shout, that the ball has gone out of play or that a rule has been breached.
8.a command to execute a subroutine.
9.a demand for payment of lent or unpaid capital.
10.(in a bar, club, etc.) denoting or made with relatively expensive brands of liquor which customers request by name.


SAY /sā/

verb
1.utter words so as to convey information, an opinion, a feeling or intention, or an instruction.
2.assume something in order to work out what its consequences would be; make a hypothesis.


exclamation
used to express surprise or to draw attention to a remark or question.

noun
an opportunity for stating one's opinion or feelings.



Just try to compare the words if both were used as a verb in the sentence...

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“YESTERDAY IS HISTORY, TOMORROW A MYSTERY, AND TODAY
A GIFT…THAT’S WHY IT IS CALLED THE PRESENT “.


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:10 am 
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It is not a matter of interpretation but rather what is the context used in both verses. To get the whole context read the preceding verses for both and not just isolating one verse versus another.

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"If I believe in God and life after death and you do not and if there is no God, we both lose when we die. However, if there is a God, you still lose and I gain everything." - Blaise Pascal


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:46 pm 
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mhaylove wrote:
It is not a matter of interpretation but rather what is the context used in both verses. To get the whole context read the preceding verses for both and not just isolating one verse versus another.


Would you like to share your understanding of the contexts?

We might learn/understand something.

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"When a table is normalized, the non-key columns depend on the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key." - a DBA


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:47 pm 
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JABEZJ wrote:
Mod, without digging deeper yet into the verse, this is just my personal opinion...
Take note of the words: CALL and SAY....

These two words can already tell the difference between the two verses...

Here are the meaning of the words:


CALL/kôl/

verb
1.give (an infant or animal) a specified name.
2.cry out (a word or words).
3.contact or attempt to contact (a person or number) by phone.
4.order or request the attendance of.
5.announce or decide that (an event, especially a meeting, strike, or election) is to happen.
6.(of a person) pay a brief visit.
7.(of an umpire or other official in a game) pronounce (a ball, stroke, or other action) to be the thing specified.
8.cause (a subroutine) to be executed.

noun
1.a cry made as a summons or to attract someone's attention.
2.the characteristic cry of a bird or other animal.
3.an instance of speaking to someone on the phone or attempting to contact someone by phone.
4.a brief social visit.
5.an appeal or demand for something to happen or be done.
6.an order or request for someone to be present.
7.(in sports) a decision or ruling made by an umpire or other official, traditionally conveyed by a shout, that the ball has gone out of play or that a rule has been breached.
8.a command to execute a subroutine.
9.a demand for payment of lent or unpaid capital.
10.(in a bar, club, etc.) denoting or made with relatively expensive brands of liquor which customers request by name.


SAY /sā/

verb
1.utter words so as to convey information, an opinion, a feeling or intention, or an instruction.
2.assume something in order to work out what its consequences would be; make a hypothesis.


exclamation
used to express surprise or to draw attention to a remark or question.

noun
an opportunity for stating one's opinion or feelings.



Just try to compare the words if both were used as a verb in the sentence...


You have a point there.

so what do you think is the meaning/difference of the two?

_________________
“You create your own universe as you go along.” ― Winston Churchill

"When a table is normalized, the non-key columns depend on the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key." - a DBA


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:03 pm 
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miron_lang wrote:
mhaylove wrote:
It is not a matter of interpretation but rather what is the context used in both verses. To get the whole context read the preceding verses for both and not just isolating one verse versus another.


Would you like to share your understanding of the contexts?

We might learn/understand something.


Know the context by:

1. Who is the audience?

In Romans, Paul is speaking to believers.
In Matthew, Jesus is speaking to general public.

2. What is the quote telling?

In Romans
9) because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10) For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11) For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."

In contrast to Matthew the passage is speaking of those who claim to be something that they're not.

_________________
"If I believe in God and life after death and you do not and if there is no God, we both lose when we die. However, if there is a God, you still lose and I gain everything." - Blaise Pascal


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:16 pm 
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mhaylove wrote:

Know the context by:

1. Who is the audience?

In Romans, Paul is speaking to believers.
In Matthew, Jesus is speaking to general public.

2. What is the quote telling?

In Romans
9) because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10) For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11) For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."

In contrast to Matthew the passage is speaking of those who claim to be something that they're not.


That is an excellent share i must say.


---

so in Romans the speaker was speaking to believers....i am not contesting your interpretations/context explanation

BUT dont you find any inconsistency in the word Whosoever ?


You think the speaker made a mistake using this word or maybe what he mean was..

“Whosoever among you believers shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”

_________________
“You create your own universe as you go along.” ― Winston Churchill

"When a table is normalized, the non-key columns depend on the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key." - a DBA


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:20 pm 
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miron_lang wrote:
JABEZJ wrote:
Mod, without digging deeper yet into the verse, this is just my personal opinion...
Take note of the words: CALL and SAY....

These two words can already tell the difference between the two verses...

Here are the meaning of the words:


CALL/kôl/

verb
1.give (an infant or animal) a specified name.
2.cry out (a word or words).
3.contact or attempt to contact (a person or number) by phone.
4.order or request the attendance of.
5.announce or decide that (an event, especially a meeting, strike, or election) is to happen.
6.(of a person) pay a brief visit.
7.(of an umpire or other official in a game) pronounce (a ball, stroke, or other action) to be the thing specified.
8.cause (a subroutine) to be executed.

noun
1.a cry made as a summons or to attract someone's attention.
2.the characteristic cry of a bird or other animal.
3.an instance of speaking to someone on the phone or attempting to contact someone by phone.
4.a brief social visit.
5.an appeal or demand for something to happen or be done.
6.an order or request for someone to be present.
7.(in sports) a decision or ruling made by an umpire or other official, traditionally conveyed by a shout, that the ball has gone out of play or that a rule has been breached.
8.a command to execute a subroutine.
9.a demand for payment of lent or unpaid capital.
10.(in a bar, club, etc.) denoting or made with relatively expensive brands of liquor which customers request by name.


SAY /sā/

verb
1.utter words so as to convey information, an opinion, a feeling or intention, or an instruction.
2.assume something in order to work out what its consequences would be; make a hypothesis.


exclamation
used to express surprise or to draw attention to a remark or question.

noun
an opportunity for stating one's opinion or feelings.



Just try to compare the words if both were used as a verb in the sentence...


You have a point there.

so what do you think is the meaning/difference of the two?


Mod, may point si mhay when he said the whole passage should be taken into consideration and not just the single verse.
Pero given na one verse lang ang i-interprete, here's my point of view...

In Rom. 10:13, the writer stated a fact that when one calls upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved...
Calling means crying for help knowing we as humans are sinful and we cannot save ourselves from eternal damnation..
That's why we have to call upon Jesus as He is the saviour of the world.

In Matt. 7:21, Jesus is referring this verse to those who pretend to know Him and say "Lord, Lord".
These are those who profess by mouth, they have the information, they have their opinion about Jesus being the saviour but do not genuinely believe in their heart that Jesus can really save..

_________________
“YESTERDAY IS HISTORY, TOMORROW A MYSTERY, AND TODAY
A GIFT…THAT’S WHY IT IS CALLED THE PRESENT “.


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:21 pm 
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miron_lang wrote:
mhaylove wrote:

Know the context by:

1. Who is the audience?

In Romans, Paul is speaking to believers.
In Matthew, Jesus is speaking to general public.

2. What is the quote telling?

In Romans
9) because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10) For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11) For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."

In contrast to Matthew the passage is speaking of those who claim to be something that they're not.


That is an excellent share i must say.


---

so in Romans the speaker was speaking to believers....i am not contesting your interpretations/context explanation

BUT dont you find any inconsistency in the word Whosoever ?


You think the speaker made a mistake using this word or made what he mean was..

“Whosoever among you believers shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”


Hi mod dont want to indulge more on whosover as this is more deeper topic (calvinism). Just let us settle paul is writing to the believers in rome.

_________________
"If I believe in God and life after death and you do not and if there is no God, we both lose when we die. However, if there is a God, you still lose and I gain everything." - Blaise Pascal


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:23 pm 
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mhaylove wrote:

Hi mod dont want to indulge more on whosover as this is more deeper topic (calvinism). Just let us settle paul is writing to the believers in rome.



I agree :D

Thanks for sharing.

_________________
“You create your own universe as you go along.” ― Winston Churchill

"When a table is normalized, the non-key columns depend on the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key." - a DBA


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:27 pm 
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JABEZJ wrote:

Mod, may point si mhay when he said the whole passage should be taken into consideration and not just the single verse.
Pero given na one verse lang ang i-interprete, here's my point of view...

In Rom. 10:13, the writer stated a fact that when one calls upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved...
Calling means crying for help knowing we as humans are sinful and we cannot save ourselves from eternal damnation..
That's why we have to call upon Jesus as He is the saviour of the world.

In Matt. 7:21, Jesus is referring this verse to those who pretend to know Him and say "Lord, Lord".
These are those who profess by mouth, they have the information, they have their opinion about Jesus being the saviour but do not genuinely believe in their heart that Jesus can really save..



copy. point noted :D.


--

me iba pa kayang interpretation/context explanation coming from believers?

or you think ... eto na yung generic explanation?

_________________
“You create your own universe as you go along.” ― Winston Churchill

"When a table is normalized, the non-key columns depend on the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key." - a DBA


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Mod, regarding "whosoever", tama naman si Apostle Paul...
God has no preference who shall He save as long as one "calls" Him to be his saviour..
Kaya nga Paul says there is no difference between Jews and Greeks (gentiles) when it comes to salvation because whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved...

This does not contradict with Matt. 7:21..
God will save whosoever will call upon Him..
But some might say they know Jesus but deep inside they do not really trust Him..
These are those refered by Jesus when He said not all who calls Him Lord can enter the kingdom of heaven...

_________________
“YESTERDAY IS HISTORY, TOMORROW A MYSTERY, AND TODAY
A GIFT…THAT’S WHY IT IS CALLED THE PRESENT “.


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:39 pm 
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JABEZJ wrote:
Mod, regarding "whosoever", tama naman si Apostle Paul...
God has no preference who shall He save as long as one "calls" Him to be his saviour..
Kaya nga Paul says there is no difference between Jews and Greeks (gentiles) when it comes to salvation because whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved...

This does not contradict with Matt. 7:21..
God will save whosoever will call upon Him..
But some might say they know Jesus but deep inside they do not really trust Him..
These are those refered by Jesus when He said not all who calls Him Lord can enter the kingdom of heaven...


naku parang nagbago pre hhehehe.

pero cge..


eto pala yung at the last moment pag mamamatay ka na tapos in-accept mo na si Jesus at the last moment pasok ka sa
Romans 10:13 ..

pero pag hindi mo ini-accept bago ka mamatay ay sa Matt 7:21 ka mag qualify...


so next question na lang.


meron bang generic na way or procedure kung papano i a accept si Jesus bilang saviour?

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“You create your own universe as you go along.” ― Winston Churchill

"When a table is normalized, the non-key columns depend on the key, the whole key, and nothing but the key." - a DBA


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:40 pm 
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JABEZJ wrote:
Mod, regarding "whosoever", tama naman si Apostle Paul...
God has no preference who shall He save as long as one "calls" Him to be his saviour..
Kaya nga Paul says there is no difference between Jews and Greeks (gentiles) when it comes to salvation because whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved...

This does not contradict with Matt. 7:21..
God will save whosoever will call upon Him..
But some might say they know Jesus but deep inside they do not really trust Him..
These are those refered by Jesus when He said not all who calls Him Lord can enter the kingdom of heaven...


In Romans ang sabi confessing and believing, unfortunately sa matthew some folks just utter Lord Lord.

Pero ung point ni mod about whoever I think separate thread yan and very debatable.
Calvinism vs Arminianism

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"If I believe in God and life after death and you do not and if there is no God, we both lose when we die. However, if there is a God, you still lose and I gain everything." - Blaise Pascal


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 Post subject: Re: Your interpretation
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Whosoever means "anybody" cuz in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile, bond or free, male or female.....we are one in Christ.


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