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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:57 am 
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robvilla wrote:
I don't know what's with the referee on Jason Pagara's fight last Saturday have on mind.
It's very obvious that the Indonesian fighter was knockout cold, his head hit the canvass and looks like his having a seizure.

The referee still continue to count on the visibly cold fighter, it's very obvious that he can no longer stand even if the referee counts up to 100 and yet he continues to count, he should have help the fighter and remove the mouth piece right away.

Calling GAB, they should look at the incompetent referees.

It's a matter of life and death so they should not take this sitting down...


i agree with you, the same thing happened to hatton, and i'm sure that ref was able to watch that!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:10 am 
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Fists_of_Fury wrote:
Mas bobo yung corner ng Indon; they should have stormed into the ring to help their guy up...


mas bobo ka kasi dapat ang umagap dun agad yung ringside physician since it was obvious that the Indon was already unconscious. cases or situations like that must be left in the hands of people who are capable to help remedy the situation. tingnan nyo yung kay Mayol sa Mexico, ano ginawa ng corner nya, imbes i-stabilize yung leeg and open the airway pinahiran lang ng basang bimpo ang mukha!!! :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:34 pm 
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radeon wrote:
mayweatherbuster wrote:
robvilla wrote:
I don't know what's with the referee on Jason Pagara's fight last Saturday have on mind.
It's very obvious that the Indonesian fighter was knockout cold, his head hit the canvass and looks like his having a seizure.

The referee still continue to count on the visibly cold fighter, it's very obvious that he can no longer stand even if the referee counts up to 100 and yet he continues to count, he should have help the fighter and remove the mouth piece right away.

Calling GAB, they should look at the incompetent referees.

It's a matter of life and death so they should not take this sitting down...



It's very easy to put in words what's on your mind after watching a fight like that of Pagara vs the Indon...but when you are the 3rd man on the ring you have many concerns to attend to and give justice to being the 3rd man on the ring. To me there was nothing wrong with the referee doing the counting because it was an sop...what's wrong rather is our being swift to discredit and judge the person who is in reality knowledgeable than us. JUst put your yourselves in the shoes of that judge, and let's see if you can do what he did? Let's be prudent in making comments on those who are more knowledgeable than us so as not to expose ourselves of being less knowledgeable or having no knowledge at all.

The old dictum still holds the truth: If you have nothing good to say to a person, better not say anything at all or better hold your mouth; or else your bad mouthing will expose you as no good person.


SOP ka dyan!
SOP yan if KAYA PANG TUMAYO ng boxer.
pero sa ganyang sitwasyon na NA-HATTONIZED na ang boxer AT OBVIOUS NANG DI NA MAKAKATAYO, the PRIORITY should be THE BOXER'S SAFETY and NOT KUNG ANU-ANONG SOP SOP MERON DYAN.

What if those 8 SECONDS OF COUNTING WERE THE MOST CRITICAL TIME for that boxer to be saved from permanent damage? In situations like that, every second is very important that the boxer should RECEIVE MEDICAL TREATMENT IMMEDIATELY.




Peson did what he should do as referee, he wasn't the doctor, he was the REFEREE, the third man on the ring authorized by the boxing commission for that fight. there was a ring physician who has the capacity and authority to look into the situation of the Indon. Peson was there to referee and counting is an SOP of refereeing the fight.

The problem is you people are very fast to criticize. You must first understand what's the role of the third man on the ring. The situation was a swift knockdown. Do you think the first move of the referee is to declare the fight OVER? Of course not, he has to count first so that the fight can be declared over.

Bobo kang referee kung ang unang gagawin mo on that situation is to call a doctor and without counting so as to end the fight. The situation calls such correct and right action of Peson. Ikaw nga kaya mag referee kahit sa amateur lang...tingnan lang natin ang galing mo.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:39 pm 
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radeon wrote:
robvilla wrote:
I don't know what's with the referee on Jason Pagara's fight last Saturday have on mind.
It's very obvious that the Indonesian fighter was knockout cold, his head hit the canvass and looks like his having a seizure.

The referee still continue to count on the visibly cold fighter, it's very obvious that he can no longer stand even if the referee counts up to 100 and yet he continues to count, he should have help the fighter and remove the mouth piece right away.

Calling GAB, they should look at the incompetent referees.

It's a matter of life and death so they should not take this sitting down...


masyadong BY THE BOOK!
:lol: :lol: :lol:



Ikaw kaya mag referee??? Let's see what will you do. Im sure you will refer to the rules when you have a swift situation like that. Magaling lang tayo magkomento pero kung tayo ang nasa sitwasyon ng referee mas masahol pa siguro gagawin natin.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:00 pm 
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common sense na lang. kung nakita mong gumagalaw pa at mukhang tatayo pa, bilangan mo. kung di na gumagalaw at mukhang matitigok na, wala ng bilang- bilang tumawag na ng ambulancya :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:16 am 
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mayweatherbuster wrote:
radeon wrote:
mayweatherbuster wrote:


It's very easy to put in words what's on your mind after watching a fight like that of Pagara vs the Indon...but when you are the 3rd man on the ring you have many concerns to attend to and give justice to being the 3rd man on the ring. To me there was nothing wrong with the referee doing the counting because it was an sop...what's wrong rather is our being swift to discredit and judge the person who is in reality knowledgeable than us. JUst put your yourselves in the shoes of that judge, and let's see if you can do what he did? Let's be prudent in making comments on those who are more knowledgeable than us so as not to expose ourselves of being less knowledgeable or having no knowledge at all.

The old dictum still holds the truth: If you have nothing good to say to a person, better not say anything at all or better hold your mouth; or else your bad mouthing will expose you as no good person.


SOP ka dyan!
SOP yan if KAYA PANG TUMAYO ng boxer.
pero sa ganyang sitwasyon na NA-HATTONIZED na ang boxer AT OBVIOUS NANG DI NA MAKAKATAYO, the PRIORITY should be THE BOXER'S SAFETY and NOT KUNG ANU-ANONG SOP SOP MERON DYAN.

What if those 8 SECONDS OF COUNTING WERE THE MOST CRITICAL TIME for that boxer to be saved from permanent damage? In situations like that, every second is very important that the boxer should RECEIVE MEDICAL TREATMENT IMMEDIATELY.




Peson did what he should do as referee, he wasn't the doctor, he was the REFEREE, the third man on the ring authorized by the boxing commission for that fight. there was a ring physician who has the capacity and authority to look into the situation of the Indon. Peson was there to referee and counting is an SOP of refereeing the fight.

The problem is you people are very fast to criticize. You must first understand what's the role of the third man on the ring. The situation was a swift knockdown. Do you think the first move of the referee is to declare the fight OVER? Of course not, he has to count first so that the fight can be declared over.

Bobo kang referee kung ang unang gagawin mo on that situation is to call a doctor and without counting so as to end the fight. The situation calls such correct and right action of Peson. Ikaw nga kaya mag referee kahit sa amateur lang...tingnan lang natin ang galing mo.


hay naku juice ko lord bigyan mo pa ako ng pasensya sa ugok na to.
di mo ba naintindihan ang sinasabi mo? na porke't referee lang siya at hindi siya doktor eh he should prioritize being a referee on that situation than seeing the welfare of the boxer. Just because a doctor is provided in every fight means that he can interrupt the referee so that he can bypass the referee's decision to count. The job of the referee is not only to be a referee in a bout, but to protect the boxer's health. Di porke't di siya doctor eh di niya na trabaho yun, trabaho niya pa rin yun BY IMMEDIATELY STOPPING THE FIGHT AND CALLING THE DOCTOR.

Napaka tangengots mo naman kung bibilangin mo pa ang taong OBVIOUS NANG TULOG OR DI MAKATAYO.

and this is what i've been trying to say, kaya read and read again para maisaksak mo sa kulelat mong brain na KULANG SA COMMON SENSE ha?

“When to stop or not stop a bout is the most difficult and critical decision a Referee has to make in the ring. If done too fast the event is damaged completely. If done too slow the boxer could become seriously hurt or die.” – Excerpt from the WBA Referee Manual

Kaya ko sinabi in my previous post na if he counted upto 2 or 3 and stopped because nakita niya nang there was no need anymore to count, i can attribute it to him doing his job of doing what the rules say and that is to count a downed opponent then stopped DUE TO COMMON SENSE as there was no need anymore to count AS IT WAS OVER-RULED BY THE NEED OF THE BOXER FOR MEDICAL ATTENTION.
Pero to count upto 8 EVEN IF IT WAS OBVIOUS THE BOXER COULDN'T STAND UP, that can be attributed to na MENTAL BLOCK as to not know what's the right thing to do on that moment.


http://filipinoboxingjournal.com/2011/0 ... op-a-bout/

When Jason Pagara of the Philippines thudded a crisp counter left hook to Indonesian Billy Sumba’s jaw in the first round of their encounter last Saturday, Sumba’s ancestors must have felt that punch. Judging by the way he fell to the canvas, there was no chance of him getting up and getting back at Pagara. But in a move that would bedazzle expert boxing minds and casual fans alike, veteran referee Tony Pesons initiated to count Sumba out. But was that even necessary?

This writer is no expert in the art and science of refereeing, but isn’t the referee’s primary concern should be the safety and overall welfare of the boxers who are in the ring with him? After all, the referee is the one designated with the duty to stop a fight if conditions for a halt are met. But why, then, Pesons decided to count Sumba out rather than halt the fight and give the Indonesian the medical attention he desperately deserved? No one but Pesons can give a definitive answer.

But given Pesons’ experience and exposure to the sport, it is highly expected of him to act rapidly for the benefit of the boxers under his eyes. To most people, Pesons failed in that part and is now being criticized for such a huge lapse. He should have called a stop and immediately attended to the fallen Sumba.

The effect of such mistake is huge and adverse. Many now question the quality and competence of Filipino boxing referees. Though many believe that Filipino referees are good at what they do, Pesons’ action last Saturday would really make a curious boxing fan think. When was the last time a Filipino boxing referee was tasked to officiate a HUGE world championship event? When did Philippines ever produced an internationally acclaimed boxing referee since Carlos “Sonny” Padilla?

Looking at the big picture, erroneous officiating by professional and licensed referees has always been a problem. Low blows, elbows, and head butts are already fixtures in any boxing match. But these problems are, to some extent, manageable. But how does a referee deem a fight is over or a boxer is in immediate mortal danger?

According to the Referee Manual of the WBA, there is no written standard on when a referee should call a halt when the health of one or both fighters is the pressing and immediate concern. But there are tell tale signs that can help a referee immediately make the decision. These signs include:
Strong fatigue
Change of skin color
Open mouth or poor breathing
Unbalanced gait or stance
Lack of muscle control
Disorientation
Dazed look
Nausea or vomiting
Claims of severe headaches or earaches
Pupillary changes
Bad cuts, lacerations, or swelling.

With Pesons high standing as a licensed boxing official in the Philippine boxing scene, his experience should have been able to help him recognize the danger Sumba was in. It can’t be denied that Pesons made a colossal error in judgment. Although Sumba was able to exit the ring in his own two feet, Pesons, and all other professional boxing referees and all boxing authorities, must make sure such mistake would never happen again.

There are quite a few instances where referees failed to act quickly and decisively. And in a number of these cases, boxers often suffered lifelong injuries or even died as a result. The referee may be the man in charge of the action. But he should not forget, it is in his hands where boxers place their lives every time they step inside the squared circle and beat the crap out of each other for a living and a chance at glory.

*****
With all things said, Peson's mistake can be attributed to MENTAL BLOCK talaga cos he was in that situation. Not everyone can do the right decision everytime there is an emergency.

Pero tayo dito who had the time to think because we were not on that situation facing a crisis on what to do, there is no excuse for us to say that pati tayo eh namemental block rin. Kaya yung nagsasabing he did the right thing to count AY MAY KAKULANGAN SA COMMON SENSE.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:24 am 
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angsyga wrote:
common sense na lang. kung nakita mong gumagalaw pa at mukhang tatayo pa, bilangan mo. kung di na gumagalaw at mukhang matitigok na, wala ng bilang- bilang tumawag na ng ambulancya :lol: :lol:


kaya nga eh.
Sa kalagayang yun ng boxer, he would have to count kasi di pa naman makikita kaagad if unable to continue na ang boxer eh. SO he would have to count, BUT since on that situation kita naman talaga na DI NA KAYA tumayo ng boxer HE SHOULD HAVE STOPPED AT THE 2ND OR 3RD COUNT, there was no need to finish the count. Every second is precious to save a boxer from possible death or life-long injury. Di natin malalaman ano mangyayari, just look at Gorres he looked fine after the fight PERO biglang nag faint resulting to you all know what na. :(
Imagine a boxer that LOOKED OKAY biglang naging ganun, HOW MUCH MORE TO A BOXER WHO DIDN'T LOOKED OKAY.

Ma-attribute talaga sa mental block yung nagawa niya kasi he is on a critical situation eh.

Pero tayong mga nandito lang at wala sa situation na yan, kaya pa natin mag-isip what to do. Kitang-kita namang di na talaga tatayo, AT KAWAWA na yung boxer thus there is no need to count. COMMON SENSE. BOXER'S SAFETY OVER-RULES ANY SOP SOP NA YAN.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:28 am 
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mayweatherbuster wrote:
radeon wrote:
robvilla wrote:
I don't know what's with the referee on Jason Pagara's fight last Saturday have on mind.
It's very obvious that the Indonesian fighter was knockout cold, his head hit the canvass and looks like his having a seizure.

The referee still continue to count on the visibly cold fighter, it's very obvious that he can no longer stand even if the referee counts up to 100 and yet he continues to count, he should have help the fighter and remove the mouth piece right away.

Calling GAB, they should look at the incompetent referees.

It's a matter of life and death so they should not take this sitting down...


masyadong BY THE BOOK!
:lol: :lol: :lol:



Ikaw kaya mag referee??? Let's see what will you do. Im sure you will refer to the rules when you have a swift situation like that. Magaling lang tayo magkomento pero kung tayo ang nasa sitwasyon ng referee mas masahol pa siguro gagawin natin.


anong mas masahol pa siguro gagawin NATIN?! IKAW LANG.
eh dito pa nga na may time kang mag-isip eh YOU PRIORITIZE PROTOCOL OVER BOXER'S SAFETY.
How much more kung ikaw na yung ref? Baka mas masahol pa gagawin MO,IKAW LANG sa boxer na yun. Baka you will count every second as 10 seconds each that would be a GRAND TOTAL OF 80 seconds.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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hindi asa sa import.at yung mga import ginugulpi ng pinoy
di tulad ngayon ninakawan mo yung customer mo,nagwala akala nasa sariling bansa nanapak ng pulis at umupo dun sa desk blotter


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:36 am 
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mayweatherbuster wrote:
radeon wrote:
mayweatherbuster wrote:


It's very easy to put in words what's on your mind after watching a fight like that of Pagara vs the Indon...but when you are the 3rd man on the ring you have many concerns to attend to and give justice to being the 3rd man on the ring. To me there was nothing wrong with the referee doing the counting because it was an sop...what's wrong rather is our being swift to discredit and judge the person who is in reality knowledgeable than us. JUst put your yourselves in the shoes of that judge, and let's see if you can do what he did? Let's be prudent in making comments on those who are more knowledgeable than us so as not to expose ourselves of being less knowledgeable or having no knowledge at all.

The old dictum still holds the truth: If you have nothing good to say to a person, better not say anything at all or better hold your mouth; or else your bad mouthing will expose you as no good person.


SOP ka dyan!
SOP yan if KAYA PANG TUMAYO ng boxer.
pero sa ganyang sitwasyon na NA-HATTONIZED na ang boxer AT OBVIOUS NANG DI NA MAKAKATAYO, the PRIORITY should be THE BOXER'S SAFETY and NOT KUNG ANU-ANONG SOP SOP MERON DYAN.

What if those 8 SECONDS OF COUNTING WERE THE MOST CRITICAL TIME for that boxer to be saved from permanent damage? In situations like that, every second is very important that the boxer should RECEIVE MEDICAL TREATMENT IMMEDIATELY.




Peson did what he should do as referee, he wasn't the doctor, he was the REFEREE, the third man on the ring authorized by the boxing commission for that fight. there was a ring physician who has the capacity and authority to look into the situation of the Indon. Peson was there to referee and counting is an SOP of refereeing the fight.

The problem is you people are very fast to criticize. You must first understand what's the role of the third man on the ring. The situation was a swift knockdown. Do you think the first move of the referee is to declare the fight OVER? Of course not, he has to count first so that the fight can be declared over.

Bobo kang referee kung ang unang gagawin mo on that situation is to call a doctor and without counting so as to end the fight. The situation calls such correct and right action of Peson. Ikaw nga kaya mag referee kahit sa amateur lang...tingnan lang natin ang galing mo.


Someone not only lacks common sense but obviously lacks reading comprehension.
We here have the commodity of being given the time to think as compared to that ref who had to act instantly on a critical situation but didn't do the best and right thing for that situation.
We here who have the time to think cannot be excused by saying we too didn't have time to think, thus we should be able to to think what is the right thing for that moment. If not, it simply means that some people lack COMMON SENSE and are SADISTS to allow a hurt boxer to prolong his pain for even just a second more which could mean life or death for him.

Your point being OVERLY CRITICAL FOR FOLLOWING PROTOCOLS Versus My point of BOXER'S SAFETY OVER PROTOCOLS.

Isang tanong, isang sagot.
Para sa iyo alin ang mas importante? Protocol/Rules or Boxer's Safety?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:41 am 
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angsyga wrote:
Fists_of_Fury wrote:
Mas bobo yung corner ng Indon; they should have stormed into the ring to help their guy up...


mas bobo ka kasi dapat ang umagap dun agad yung ringside physician since it was obvious that the Indon was already unconscious. cases or situations like that must be left in the hands of people who are capable to help remedy the situation. tingnan nyo yung kay Mayol sa Mexico, ano ginawa ng corner nya, imbes i-stabilize yung leeg and open the airway pinahiran lang ng basang bimpo ang mukha!!! :lol: :lol:


Mas pinakabobo ka to assume that every corner would react the same way they did with Mayol.
A good corner would have thrown in the towel, jumped into the ring and call in the physician for help...
Watch more boxing matches for samples of good and quick action by the fighter's corner -

How old are you kid?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:45 am 
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for those who have seen many boxing fights that end like this,
these are comparisons as to what we often see referee's do in situations like this.

1. IF he had the presence of mind to see that the boxer is already really hurt and thus obviously will be unable to stand up, the ref will find no need to count. He waves immediately for the fight to stop.

2. IF he was unable to see what JUST happened due to bad angle for him or everything just happened to fast,
a. Kasi di niya pa nakita ang kalagayan ng boxer, he counts
1. Within counting he sees there is a chance that the boxer can recover, he continues counting.
2. Within counting he SEES NO CHANCE the boxer can recover, he stops counting and waves immediately for the fight to be stopped. Within 8 seconds is enough time naman to see if the boxer needs to be given a chance to stand up or the boxer needs medical attention. Dito sa situation na to ang nangyari sa ref na yun.
Grabe naman yung tapusin yung 8 count kahit kitang-kita na di na kaya tumayo ng boxer eh.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:53 am 
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Fists_of_Fury wrote:
Mas bobo yung corner ng Indon; they should have stormed into the ring to help their guy up...


yup since the ref and the indon's corner were on that situation, pareho silang nabiktima sa suddenness ng situation talaga. they didn't have time to think on what's the right thing to do on that moment. at lalo pa silang di makakilos kasi nakita nilang binilangan eh.

but all of us here do have time to think, yet these other people here still chose to do the same thing. :lol: :lol: :lol: they're sadists i say. :lol: :lol: :lol: sadists for thinking ang RULES ay mas matimbang kaysa sa BOXER'S SAFETY. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:56 am 
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Maybe the ref sincerely thought na may posibility pa na ma-beat ang 10 count. :biglaugh:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:07 am 
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mexifan wrote:
Maybe the ref sincerely thought na may posibility pa na ma-beat ang 10 count. :biglaugh:


on his situation, he can be forgiven for reasons of the suddenness of the situation.
but for us here who had time to think, toinks pakisampal nga sa kakulangan ng common sense.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

if namatay yung boxer na yun just because he wasn't given immediate medical attention within those precious seconds, sigurado akong isa tong mayweatherlevelangIQ sa magcricriticize sa ref na yun.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:10 am 
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Baka hindi napanood ng ref si Kenny Bayless after after Pac dropped Hatton cold. :biglaugh:

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