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Are strenght and conditioning coaches in boxing overrated?
Poll ended at Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:05 pm
I agree most fighters and trainers already know how to get in fighting form. 27%  27%  [ 8 ]
No, they are not overrated and I believe in Kinesiology. 40%  40%  [ 12 ]
It depends who the coach is. 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Case to case basis. 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 30
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:13 am 
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kajo wrote:
andycastro wrote:
kajo wrote:
Floyd is ALWAYS in superb condition.
Who is his S&C coach?

Before, it was Ellerbe. Now it's himself. And according to rumours (Hausser) he tested positive of PEDs 3 times. Remember, "A very thin line exists between supplements and PEDs." A S&C is required to distinguish one from the other.

bro, can you provide a link to that rumour?
One thing about Floyd is that he is a conditioning freak.
He maintains his condition in between fights.

Manny and the others gain weight during those periods.

Where have you been, bro? If you didn't hear about Gabriel Montoya's expose and Thomas Hausser's recently written articles on the subject. Google Thomas Hausser on Mayweather's failed drug tests. And didn't this Floyd "who is ALWAYS in superb condition" cheated Marquez at weigh-in before their fight. Marquez claimed Floyd was at least 20 lbs heavier and it showed on fight night. :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:19 am 
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andycastro wrote:
Where have you been, bro? If you didn't hear about Gabriel Montoya's expose and Thomas Hausser's recently written articles on the subject. Google Thomas Hausser on Mayweather's failed drug tests. And didn't this Floyd "who is ALWAYS in superb condition" cheated Marquez at weigh-in before their fight. Marquez claimed Floyd was at least 20 lbs heavier and it showed on fight night. :shock:

Did you mean the Xylocaine?
That extra weight is intentional I think.
He wanted to KO JMM, he knows he doesn't have to be super quick against him.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:22 am 
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^ I found the article , bro.

"On May 20, 2012, a rumor filtered through the drug-testing community that Mayweather had tested positive on three occasions for an illegal performance-enhancing drug.

More specifically, it was rumored that Mayweather’s “A” sample had tested positive on three occasions and, after each positive test, USADA had found exceptional circumstances in the form of inadvertent use and gave Floyd a waiver. This waiver, according to the rumor, negated the need for a test of Floyd’s “B” sample. And because the “B” sample was never tested, a loophole in USADA’s contract with Mayweather and Golden Boy allowed the testing to proceed without the positive “A” sample results being reported to Mayweather’s opponent or the Nevada State Athletic Commission (which had jurisdiction over the fights).'

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:43 am 
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kajo wrote:
andycastro wrote:
Where have you been, bro? If you didn't hear about Gabriel Montoya's expose and Thomas Hausser's recently written articles on the subject. Google Thomas Hausser on Mayweather's failed drug tests. And didn't this Floyd "who is ALWAYS in superb condition" cheated Marquez at weigh-in before their fight. Marquez claimed Floyd was at least 20 lbs heavier and it showed on fight night. :shock:

Did you mean the Xylocaine?
That extra weight is intentional I think.
He wanted to KO JMM, he knows he doesn't have to be super quick against him.

It's PEDs bro, not xylocaine. And whether the extra weight (20lbs) was intentional or not, he couldn't have done it without the aid of supplements and knowledge of how to use them. (Normally administered by S&C coaches to be safe and effective).

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:20 am 
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andycastro wrote:
kajo wrote:
andycastro wrote:
Where have you been, bro? If you didn't hear about Gabriel Montoya's expose and Thomas Hausser's recently written articles on the subject. Google Thomas Hausser on Mayweather's failed drug tests. And didn't this Floyd "who is ALWAYS in superb condition" cheated Marquez at weigh-in before their fight. Marquez claimed Floyd was at least 20 lbs heavier and it showed on fight night. :shock:

Did you mean the Xylocaine?
That extra weight is intentional I think.
He wanted to KO JMM, he knows he doesn't have to be super quick against him.

It's PEDs bro, not xylocaine. And whether the extra weight (20lbs) was intentional or not, he couldn't have done it without the aid of supplements and knowledge of how to use them. (Normally administered by S&C coaches to be safe and effective).


20 lbs??? :shock:
Floyd should be fighting at Super Middleweight if that's the case.
He fought the wrong guy, he should be in the ring with Bernard Hopkins. :spin:

Tol, u seem to live both worlds. Fantasy and Reality. U speak ur ridiculous assumptions as if they are facts. May proof ka ba that Floyd is into supplements to regulate his physical condition and that he was under the guidance of an S & C trainer? Kelan lang ba pumasok yang mga S & C trainers sa mundo ng boxing? Naging fad dahil sa lintek na catchweights at mga walang disiplinang boxers na malakas kumain at uminom pag walang laban. At naging high profile ng husto dahil itong si Ariza, mas madaldal pa sa interviews kay Roach. Floyd is following an old school regimen. Early morning runs and gym workouts.

$600,000, or 300 grand for every pound overweight, was the price of Floyd's intention not to cut weight and not to jeopardize his form. He tipped the scales at 146 lbs. after almost 2 years of inactivity. The agreed catchweight was 144 lbs.and he was 2 lbs. overweight. Still it was an ideal weight for him because 146 lbs. is 1 pound less of the Welterweight limit he normally fights in.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:33 am 
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kajo wrote:
^ I found the article , bro.

"On May 20, 2012, a rumor filtered through the drug-testing community that Mayweather had tested positive on three occasions for an illegal performance-enhancing drug.

More specifically, it was rumored that Mayweather’s “A” sample had tested positive on three occasions and, after each positive test, USADA had found exceptional circumstances in the form of inadvertent use and gave Floyd a waiver. This waiver, according to the rumor, negated the need for a test of Floyd’s “B” sample. And because the “B” sample was never tested, a loophole in USADA’s contract with Mayweather and Golden Boy allowed the testing to proceed without the positive “A” sample results being reported to Mayweather’s opponent or the Nevada State Athletic Commission (which had jurisdiction over the fights).'

This is the same Thomas Hausser who challenged Oscar Dela Hoya to sign a waiver to publish results of a PED positive test for (EPO) before a bout with Mosley. The reason why they were not reported, also like Mayweather case, was based on technicalities. This means the scientific proof was there, but a case may not prosper due to technicalities like illegally acquired evidence. It was later on when Pacquiao was being accused of PED use that Dela Hoya said "Manny Pacquiao's punches were very similar to those of Mosley and Vargas".
Both Mosley and Vargas were found guilty of PED use before. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:37 am 
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andycastro wrote:
kajo wrote:
^ I found the article , bro.

"On May 20, 2012, a rumor filtered through the drug-testing community that Mayweather had tested positive on three occasions for an illegal performance-enhancing drug.

More specifically, it was rumored that Mayweather’s “A” sample had tested positive on three occasions and, after each positive test, USADA had found exceptional circumstances in the form of inadvertent use and gave Floyd a waiver. This waiver, according to the rumor, negated the need for a test of Floyd’s “B” sample. And because the “B” sample was never tested, a loophole in USADA’s contract with Mayweather and Golden Boy allowed the testing to proceed without the positive “A” sample results being reported to Mayweather’s opponent or the Nevada State Athletic Commission (which had jurisdiction over the fights).'

This is the same Thomas Hausser who challenged Oscar Dela Hoya to sign a waiver to publish results of a PED positive test for (EPO) before a bout with Mosley. The reason why they were not reported, also like Mayweather case, was based on technicalities. This means the scientific proof was there, but a case may not prosper due to technicalities like illegally acquired evidence. It was later on when Pacquiao was being accused of PED use that Dela Hoya said "Manny Pacquiao's punches were very similar to those of Mosley and Vargas".
Both Mosley and Vargas were found guilty of PED use before. :)


Both Mosley and Vargas lost fights even with banned substances inside their system. :spin:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:07 am 
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Lildevalt wrote:
andycastro wrote:
andycastro wrote:
Where have you been, bro? If you didn't hear about Gabriel Montoya's expose and Thomas Hausser's recently written articles on the subject. Google Thomas Hausser on Mayweather's failed drug tests. And didn't this Floyd "who is ALWAYS in superb condition" cheated Marquez at weigh-in before their fight. Marquez claimed Floyd was at least 20 lbs heavier and it showed on fight night. :shock:

kajo wrote:
Did you mean the Xylocaine?
That extra weight is intentional I think.
He wanted to KO JMM, he knows he doesn't have to be super quick against him.

It's PEDs bro, not xylocaine. And whether the extra weight (20lbs) was intentional or not, he couldn't have done it without the aid of supplements and knowledge of how to use them. (Normally administered by S&C coaches to be safe and effective).


20 lbs??? :shock:
Floyd should be fighting at Super Middleweight if that's the case.
He fought the wrong guy, he should be in the ring with Bernard Hopkins. :spin:

Tol, u seem to live both worlds. Fantasy and Reality. U speak ur ridiculous assumptions as if they are facts. May proof ka ba that Floyd is into supplements to regulate his physical condition and that he was under the guidance of an S & C trainer? Kelan lang ba pumasok yang mga S & C trainers sa mundo ng boxing? Naging fad dahil sa lintek na catchweights at mga walang disiplinang boxers na malakas kumain at uminom pag walang laban. At naging high profile ng husto dahil itong si Ariza, mas madaldal pa sa interviews kay Roach. Floyd is following an old school regimen. Early morning runs and gym workouts.

$600,000, or 300 grand for every pound overweight, was the price of Floyd's intention not to cut weight and not to jeopardize his form. He tipped the scales at 146 lbs. after almost 2 years of inactivity. The agreed catchweight was 144 lbs.and he was 2 lbs. overweight. Still it was an ideal weight for him because 146 lbs. is 1 pound less of the Welterweight limit he normally fights in.

Floyd fought Oscar and Cotto at jr Middleweight. Margocheato came at 165 at fight night after weighing in at 150 day before. So, what's surprising if both Floyd and Cotto weighed 165 both at fight time and that Floyd was 20 lbs heavier than Marquez at say 145?

Supplements are not a fad in today's world of boxing. They are indispensable and goes hand in hand with disiplined training methods, if a boxer is to survive the competition and reach the Top. Nonito Donaire has Victor Conte, a known PEDs expert and a Track & Field expert to help him train. Where's Donaire now? :D

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:14 am 
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Lildevalt wrote:
andycastro wrote:
kajo wrote:
^ I found the article , bro.

"On May 20, 2012, a rumor filtered through the drug-testing community that Mayweather had tested positive on three occasions for an illegal performance-enhancing drug.

More specifically, it was rumored that Mayweather’s “A” sample had tested positive on three occasions and, after each positive test, USADA had found exceptional circumstances in the form of inadvertent use and gave Floyd a waiver. This waiver, according to the rumor, negated the need for a test of Floyd’s “B” sample. And because the “B” sample was never tested, a loophole in USADA’s contract with Mayweather and Golden Boy allowed the testing to proceed without the positive “A” sample results being reported to Mayweather’s opponent or the Nevada State Athletic Commission (which had jurisdiction over the fights).'

This is the same Thomas Hausser who challenged Oscar Dela Hoya to sign a waiver to publish results of a PED positive test for (EPO) before a bout with Mosley. The reason why they were not reported, also like Mayweather case, was based on technicalities. This means the scientific proof was there, but a case may not prosper due to technicalities like illegally acquired evidence. It was later on when Pacquiao was being accused of PED use that Dela Hoya said "Manny Pacquiao's punches were very similar to those of Mosley and Vargas".
Both Mosley and Vargas were found guilty of PED use before. :)


Both Mosley and Vargas lost fights even with banned substances inside their system. :spin:

Dela Hoya vs Mosley was a case where both fighters used PEDs or supplements. The more skilled fighter wins. Mosley is a future Hall of Famer. I heard. :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:16 am 
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Lildevalt wrote:
andycastro wrote:
andycastro wrote:
Where have you been, bro? If you didn't hear about Gabriel Montoya's expose and Thomas Hausser's recently written articles on the subject. Google Thomas Hausser on Mayweather's failed drug tests. And didn't this Floyd "who is ALWAYS in superb condition" cheated Marquez at weigh-in before their fight. Marquez claimed Floyd was at least 20 lbs heavier and it showed on fight night. :shock:

kajo wrote:
Did you mean the Xylocaine?
That extra weight is intentional I think.
He wanted to KO JMM, he knows he doesn't have to be super quick against him.

It's PEDs bro, not xylocaine. And whether the extra weight (20lbs) was intentional or not, he couldn't have done it without the aid of supplements and knowledge of how to use them. (Normally administered by S&C coaches to be safe and effective).


20 lbs??? :shock:
Floyd should be fighting at Super Middleweight if that's the case.
He fought the wrong guy, he should be in the ring with Bernard Hopkins. :spin:

Tol, u seem to live both worlds. Fantasy and Reality. U speak ur ridiculous assumptions as if they are facts. May proof ka ba that Floyd is into supplements to regulate his physical condition and that he was under the guidance of an S & C trainer? Kelan lang ba pumasok yang mga S & C trainers sa mundo ng boxing? Naging fad dahil sa lintek na catchweights at mga walang disiplinang boxers na malakas kumain at uminom pag walang laban. At naging high profile ng husto dahil itong si Ariza, mas madaldal pa sa interviews kay Roach. Floyd is following an old school regimen. Early morning runs and gym workouts.

$600,000, or 300 grand for every pound overweight, was the price of Floyd's intention not to cut weight and not to jeopardize his form. He tipped the scales at 146 lbs. after almost 2 years of inactivity. The agreed catchweight was 144 lbs.and he was 2 lbs. overweight. Still it was an ideal weight for him because 146 lbs. is 1 pound less of the Welterweight limit he normally fights in.

andycastro wrote:
Floyd fought Oscar and Cotto at jr Middleweight. Margocheato came at 165 at fight night after weighing in at 150 day before. So, what's surprising if both Floyd and Cotto weighed 165 both at fight time and that Floyd was 20 lbs heavier than Marquez at say 145?

Supplements are not a fad in today's world of boxing. They are indispensable and goes hand in hand with disiplined training methods, if a boxer is to survive the competition and reach the Top. Nonito Donaire has Victor Conte, a known PEDs expert and a Track & Field expert to help him train. Where's Donaire now? :D



We're talking about the agreed weight limit between Floyd and Marquez, not the rehydration weight. Floyd normally fights at Welterweight division. Before he fought marquez, he fought mostly in the Welterweight division except for that lucrative deal with oscar at 154 lbs. which he had been chasing since he was still at Lightweight division.

If what you are saying is true, how many boxers in top 10 p4p are under the guidance of an S & C trainer? Like i said before, S & C trainers are more in demand when they are handling fighters who are scaling weight divisions. Donaire is currently in his 4th division, that's why. And he's planning to move to the next weight division.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:18 am 
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Lildevalt wrote:
andycastro wrote:
kajo wrote:
^ I found the article , bro.

"On May 20, 2012, a rumor filtered through the drug-testing community that Mayweather had tested positive on three occasions for an illegal performance-enhancing drug.

More specifically, it was rumored that Mayweather’s “A” sample had tested positive on three occasions and, after each positive test, USADA had found exceptional circumstances in the form of inadvertent use and gave Floyd a waiver. This waiver, according to the rumor, negated the need for a test of Floyd’s “B” sample. And because the “B” sample was never tested, a loophole in USADA’s contract with Mayweather and Golden Boy allowed the testing to proceed without the positive “A” sample results being reported to Mayweather’s opponent or the Nevada State Athletic Commission (which had jurisdiction over the fights).'

This is the same Thomas Hausser who challenged Oscar Dela Hoya to sign a waiver to publish results of a PED positive test for (EPO) before a bout with Mosley. The reason why they were not reported, also like Mayweather case, was based on technicalities. This means the scientific proof was there, but a case may not prosper due to technicalities like illegally acquired evidence. It was later on when Pacquiao was being accused of PED use that Dela Hoya said "Manny Pacquiao's punches were very similar to those of Mosley and Vargas".
Both Mosley and Vargas were found guilty of PED use before. :)


Both Mosley and Vargas lost fights even with banned substances inside their system. :spin:

andycastro wrote:
Dela Hoya vs Mosley was a case where both fighters used PEDs or supplements. The more skilled fighter wins. Mosley is a future Hall of Famer. I heard. :lol: :lol:


Indeed Mosley is. But none of his early success could be attributed to an S & C trainer. He did it on his own.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:43 am 
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Lildevalt wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
kajo wrote:
^ I found the article , bro.

"On May 20, 2012, a rumor filtered through the drug-testing community that Mayweather had tested positive on three occasions for an illegal performance-enhancing drug.

More specifically, it was rumored that Mayweather’s “A” sample had tested positive on three occasions and, after each positive test, USADA had found exceptional circumstances in the form of inadvertent use and gave Floyd a waiver. This waiver, according to the rumor, negated the need for a test of Floyd’s “B” sample. And because the “B” sample was never tested, a loophole in USADA’s contract with Mayweather and Golden Boy allowed the testing to proceed without the positive “A” sample results being reported to Mayweather’s opponent or the Nevada State Athletic Commission (which had jurisdiction over the fights).'

andycastro wrote:
This is the same Thomas Hausser who challenged Oscar Dela Hoya to sign a waiver to publish results of a PED positive test for (EPO) before a bout with Mosley. The reason why they were not reported, also like Mayweather case, was based on technicalities. This means the scientific proof was there, but a case may not prosper due to technicalities like illegally acquired evidence. It was later on when Pacquiao was being accused of PED use that Dela Hoya said "Manny Pacquiao's punches were very similar to those of Mosley and Vargas".
Both Mosley and Vargas were found guilty of PED use before. :)


Both Mosley and Vargas lost fights even with banned substances inside their system. :spin:

andycastro wrote:
Dela Hoya vs Mosley was a case where both fighters used PEDs or supplements. The more skilled fighter wins. Mosley is a future Hall of Famer. I heard. :lol: :lol:


Indeed Mosley is. But none of his early success could be attributed to an S & C trainer. He did it on his own.

You're right he did it on his own, tol and thanks for reminding me. Mosley ordered his PEDs fro Victor Conte and he was injecting himself with the stuff without the aid of an S&C. Same is true with Holyfield, self administered. And at about the same time, Leonard was being accused of taking drugs before the second fight with Hearns.
Bagsak na ang katwiran mo na di kailangan ang supplements ng mga pinagpapantasyahan mong "throwback fighters", tol.
Kung may mga S&C coaches na sana noon, di na sana sila gumamit ng PEDs. :biglaugh:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:50 am 
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andycastro wrote:
You're right he did it on his own, tol and thanks for reminding me. Mosley ordered his PEDs fro Victor Conte and he was injecting himself with the stuff without the aid of an S&C. Same is true with Holyfield, self administered. And at about the same time, Leonard was being accused of taking drugs before the second fight with Hearns.
Bagsak na ang katwiran mo na di kailangan ang supplements ng mga pinagpapantasyahan mong "throwback fighters", tol.
Kung may mga S&C coaches na sana noon, di na sana sila gumamit ng PEDs. :biglaugh:


Tol, pasama ng pasama ang argumento mo. Kelan ba naging FACT ang ACCUSATION? :lol:
Kung self-administered kamo ang pag gamit ng banned substances nila Mosley at Holyfield, eh saan papasok sa usapan ang S & C trainer? May direct assistance ba silang natanggap during training preparation? Tanong ko sa iyo, after taking those supplements..NANALO AT GUMANDA BA ANG PERFORMANCE ng said users? Sagutin mo tol. :biglaugh:

Eto pa, ilang boxers sa top 10 p4p ang gumagamit ng supplements at may S & C trainer to prove your point that S & C trainers are just as vital as self-discipline?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:06 pm 
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What is going on here??? :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:09 pm 
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jjcross wrote:
What is going on here??? :shock:



3 people debating

Lildevalt vs. Andycastro
Andycastro vs. Andycastro ( Fantasy vs. Reality) (Fact vs. Assumption, Speculation, Insinuation, Accusation)

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