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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:45 am 
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Brod kulukuy, neither you nor me stated that exchangers are not needed. Kaya relaks ka lang and please do not roll your eyes too often baka masira ang iyong paningin.

I don't pretend that I know this bitcoin phenomenal to a T. The only thing I want is to eliminate the place or point where manipulations happen. But it seems to me that they (exchangers) are unavoidable component of the system. Hence my suggestion it must be controlled by governments and allow only one exchanger per country where deposists are capped to a minimal amount of "say $100,000".

If you think governments cannot be trusted (as almost everyone thinks) I kindly ask for your suggestion on how to eradicate manipulations. Something like everyone can see/monitor its operations every time they prefer. Maybe like FACEBOOK!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:38 pm 
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If you keep posting nonsense, then I'll definitely end up cross-eyed. Nonsense is nonsense regardless of whether I'm relaxed or not.

You don't even understand basic market dynamics. Market manipulation is an inevitability. In fact, the biggest and the most notorious market manipulators are your beloved governments themselves that regulate these markets (stocks, commodities, forex, etc.) in the first place with their cohorts in the private sector. You obviously (and instinctively) are applying the "centralized-government-please-protect-me" paradigm that you have been accustomed and conditioned to in trying to make sense of decentralized systems such as cryptocurrencies. Not gonna work! You'll just become more confused. I suggest that you totally forget what you know or you've been accustomed/conditioned to (centralized systems) and study the properties of decentralized systems (stateless, borderless, authority-less, open, trustless, distributed, P2P, etc.) from scratch without any prejudice. Think outside the box.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:24 pm 
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OK. I'll play along for a bit. Is there a specific cap enforced by your favorite government on the markets that they already regulate (stocks, commodities, forex, etc.)? If none, why then are you proposing that there should be one for cryptos? They're all susceptible to market manipulation.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:16 pm
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Hirap mo naman intindihin sir. Suggestion lang ang akin hindi ko sinasabing tama ako. (Eto, nagtagalog na ako dahil ako'y Pilipino at mahal ko ating wika. Isa pa kung napupuna mo lang mas mayayaman ang mga bansang gumagamit ng sarili nilang wika dahil lubos ang pagkaka-intindihan ng mga tao.)

Hindi ko tinatawaran ang iyong kaalaman tungkol sa bitcoin. Hindi ko din itinatatwa na gahol ang aking kaalaman sa bagay na ito. Ang kaso kinukutya mo ako eh! Bad yan.

What I am trying to figure out is how to eliminate that thing "manipulation." Pero sabi mo nga "To reiterate, decentralized, distributed, open, trustless, etc. crypto networks are independent of exchanges or any form of centralized/custodial institutions. It only executes the rules in their respective protocol to a tee. That's it and nothing else."

Maliwanag na ang mga exchangers ang gumaganap o nagpapagalaw sa network or blockchain. TANDEM sila (currency and exchangers) na may magkaibang gawain pero hindi pwedeng paghiwalayin. Kaya ang suggestion ko kontrolin ang may kakayahang magpapagalaw para hindi makapag-manipula. Private or government controlled entity is OK sa akin basta mawala lang manupulation dahil ang mga tao nga ang biktima lalong-lalo na ang mahihirap.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:27 pm 
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I haven't gone through the whole thread, but can somebody tell us whether bitcoin (or any crypto for that matter) can be 'mined' through smartphone apps? I have a friend who boasted to me he is mining about 1000++ satoshis (about 10 microbitcoins, lol) per day thru his cp. Is this possible and is there a legit app that can do a sort of mining too for smartphones?

I am beginning to get interested about these things only recently and would like to invest something substantial to blockchain and powerful mining investment sites, but i have had so much doubts yet.

Bro kulukuy, or any techie or crypto experts in here?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:03 am 
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Bro Kulukuy, I have nothing against bitcoin and crypto-currency. In fact I’m still studying and getting also interested about it. However, I found the following article rather hitting the point:

Three Reasons Why Bitcoin Is Not Money

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/01/three_reasons_why_bitcoin_is_not_money.html

To those who don’t have time to click and read the whole article, some portions of it read:

Like a stable legal system, every society needs a stable monetary framework. Throughout history, it has always fallen to responsible government, which exists for the common good, to control money and currency supply, prevent counterfeiting, and keep money's value stable.
..........
A private medium of exchange that is not accepted universally and lacks stability cannot be considered money.
..........
For something to be money, it must serve three basic functions: a measure of value, a medium of exchange, and a store of wealth. These are the three reasons why bitcoin is not money.
..........
It is important that money be a stable measurement, since one cannot trade or make contracts when the unit wildly fluctuates. A yardstick that is constantly changing is useless in the construction of a house. That is why it has always been the duty of the state to safeguard the political and monetary stability needed to plan for the future. Determining a measure of value is also an attribute of sovereignty, since it involves the very life of the nation and prevents the country from falling into the hands of a shadow government of manipulators.
..........
The drive to "monetize" bitcoin and other digital currencies is dangerous. The bitcoin phenomenon represents those who long to break free from legacy currencies that have provided some measure of stability and expressed the sovereignty of nations. They yearn for an economy of frenetic intemperance, in which everything must be instant and effortless. It is an economy detached from reality and responsibility, from which they might create their own abstract economic worlds.

Much like political ideologues who forced their ideal systems upon others, the new economic ideologues do the same. Their economic musings are dangerous, since they tend to force reality to conform to their global fantasies of a free-flowing abstract currency that sidesteps national sovereignty and links all nations and peoples.

German sociologist Georg Simmel, who wrote about the philosophy of money, once defined money as the value of things without the things. Perhaps bitcoin might be defined as the value of nothing without something.

It is certainly not money. :)

_________________
Let my thoughts come to you, when I am gone, like the afterglow of sunset at the margin of starry silence. -- Rabindranath Tagore


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:43 am
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tl;dr...

Most if not all of these blogs demonizing cryptocurrencies are written by shills for the old guard (a.k.a. The Banking Cartel a.k.a. The "Banksters" that/who continually print their fiat money to enrich themselves, fund their wars, etc.). They're self-serving biased propaganda. I'd take them with a kilo of salt.

Before cryptos, we take our fiat/national currencies for granted and never questioned how they came to be and what makes them tick; what makes them tick is an illusion and as such, a scam in the grandest scale. You see, people who delve into cryptocurrencies start to develop a keen interest in and awareness of what sound money really is and consequently question the soundness of the fiat currencies printed by the Banksters that is literally worth nothing more than the ink and the paper they're printed on. The Banksters are horrified of this phenomenon that effectively exposes their nefarious operation that have endured throughout modern history or even further back. I don't need to elaborate what happens when a state keeps printing their fiat currency like there's no tomorrow (hyperinflation), do I? Now contrast that with Bitcoin's or other crypto's finite token supply and predictable scheduled emission (deflationary). There are more to it but it's basically the crux of the matter.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:22 am 
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More here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=banks+create+money+out+of+thin+air


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:46 am 
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Heavyweight
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:31 am
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Location: ESCALANTE CITY
May gumagamit ba dito ng coinpot? Para sa free faucet coins?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:48 pm 
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Welterweight
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:56 am
Posts: 485
Location: Sa daigdig ng inyong panaginip
kulukuy wrote:
tl;dr...

Most if not all of these blogs demonizing cryptocurrencies are written by shills for the old guard (a.k.a. The Banking Cartel a.k.a. The "Banksters" that/who continually print their fiat money to enrich themselves, fund their wars, etc.). They're self-serving biased propaganda. I'd take them with a kilo of salt.

Before cryptos, we take our fiat/national currencies for granted and never questioned how they came to be and what makes them tick; what makes them tick is an illusion and as such, a scam in the grandest scale. You see, people who delve into cryptocurrencies start to develop a keen interest in and awareness of what sound money really is and consequently question the soundness of the fiat currencies printed by the Banksters that is literally worth nothing more than the ink and the paper they're printed on. The Banksters are horrified of this phenomenon that effectively exposes their nefarious operation that have endured throughout modern history or even further back. I don't need to elaborate what happens when a state keeps printing their fiat currency like there's no tomorrow (hyperinflation), do I? Now contrast that with Bitcoin's or other crypto's finite token supply and predictable scheduled emission (deflationary). There are more to it but it's basically the crux of the matter.

Bro kulukuy, no one thinks having our money controlled by central bankers is an ideal solution but it sure beats an economy based on totally unregulated bitcoins.

As it is said, commercial banks appear to be a necessity -- not a symptom -- of our level of civilization. Therefore, to not have them would be to deny human nature and the laws of economics themselves. We cannot just ‘re-write’ those things whenever they happen to offend us. :)

_________________
Let my thoughts come to you, when I am gone, like the afterglow of sunset at the margin of starry silence. -- Rabindranath Tagore


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:56 pm 
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One more question, Bro kulukuy: suppose a company like Amazon or E-bay accepts bitcoin in exchange for goods or services, can we say that bitcoin clearly has a value?

Correct me if I’m wrong, we buy bitcoin with money so it’s still the value of money. Therefore, bitcoin is more like a credit card – and an unstable one at that.

_________________
Let my thoughts come to you, when I am gone, like the afterglow of sunset at the margin of starry silence. -- Rabindranath Tagore


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Lightweight
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Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:49 pm
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Location: Southland
bitcoin today is already a digital money or electronic cash.
It is now used globally regardless of nationality, country, race, color, creed..
It is not tied or connected with any banks, gov'ts. or corporations..
It is owned, issued, and used by the people peer-to-peer globally..
I think this is "empowering".


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Location: East of Eden
Fortunately, there are people who get it and able to see the big picture. Unfortunately, with all the information posted on this thread and even more that can be ogled online on the subject, there are also people whose conditioning by the "old guard" is so deeply ingrained in their being that they are unable to get it and see the big picture even if they try super hard. The are set in the ways of the old guard permanently, I'm afraid. Sad really.


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