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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Rocky4 wrote:
bitcoin today is already a digital money or electronic cash.
It is now used globally regardless of nationality, country, race, color, creed..
It is not tied or connected with any banks, gov'ts. or corporations..
It is owned, issued, and used by the people peer-to-peer globally..
I think this is "empowering".

Bro Rocky4, let’s take some portions from the article I mentioned above. I’m just curious whether the points raised by the author can withstand scrutiny here. They may be weak arguments against bitcoin, but can we find the shaky part? It goes like this:

Not all that glitters is gold. Likewise, what appears to be money often is not.

Bitcoin markets itself as a transactional currency that will be one of many digital replacements for the world's tired old legacy currencies – especially the dollar. In addition, merchants accepting bitcoin payments give the impression that it functions as money.

However, bitcoin is not money.

Difference between Money and Currency

The main confusion lies in the distinction between money and currency. In the mind of the public, the two terms are synonymous.

Currency consists of banknotes and government-issued paper bills and coins that serve as media of exchange to facilitate transactions. In the modern economy, this currency, which is the actual physical cash in circulation, accounts for only a small amount of total money supply.

In this sense, bitcoin, acting like virtual cash, can perform functions similar to currencies' as a medium of exchange.

What Makes Something Money

Money is something different. It requires the existence of a lawful monetary authority. In Greek, money is termed numisma (from which comes numismatics), meaning law. Money is a creation of law. Currency becomes money by the action of lawful authority that assures its universal acceptance and takes it as payment for taxes. It acquires credibility through common usage and custom.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Once again, for something to be money, it must serve three basic functions: a measure of value, a medium of exchange, and a store of wealth.

A Store of Wealth

The final function of money is what Aristotle calls "a store of wealth." It involves money's ability to preserve value over time and therefore ensure the stability of trade. In this sense, most experts will admit that bitcoin is a store of wealth. However, because of its volatility, it behaves more like a commodity than a currency. Indeed, since bitcoins have no real existence beyond the algorithms that create them, they represent an unreal and precarious store of wealth.

Given its extraordinary rise, bitcoin is better called a risky investment. It is hardly the calm financial yardstick and medium needed to make an economy prosper.

Just sharing... :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:15 am 
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Academic, philosophical and theoritical splitting of hairs on semantics aside, the following are facts about Bitcoin which are shared to a certain extent by other top cryptocurrencies:

Bitcoin Age = only 9 years young since release/launch (less for the rest of the other cryptos)
Current Bitcoin Value = US$10,100
Current US$ Value = US$1.00

They should account for something beyond academics, philosophies and theories.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:04 am 
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Today (2/16/18) as per Coinbase Graph, bitcoin has recorded the following (highest/lowest/present) price in Philippine Peso as follows:

1/1/18 = Php 669.304,40

2/6/18 = Php 371,101.82

2/16/18 = Php 519,232.60 (at about 8:50 am)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:12 am 
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Correction pls.

Today (2/16/18) as per Coinbase Graph, bitcoin has recorded the following (highest/lowest/present) price in Philippine Peso as follows:

1/1/18 = Php 669,304.40

2/6/18 = Php 371,101.82

2/16/18 = Php 519,232.60 (at about 8:50 am)

Like any commodity, bitcoin price is subject to the "LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND"


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Once again, from the other side’s view, here are some points to ponder:

Money is a measure of value that allows people to gauge what something is worth.
(For example, we look at things and calculate their worth in dollars – the dominant measure of value.)
..........

By its nature, bitcoin does not seek to be a stable measure of value. Its enthusiasts welcomed its speculative rise in value from one to twenty thousand dollars. No one looks at things and thinks in terms of bitcoin because one cannot be sure what the unit is worth at the moment. Bitcoin itself is further expressed in dollars and not in its own units since it has no stable value in the public mind. It is risky to make contracts in bitcoin since its future value is unknowable.
..........

Bitcoin presents itself as a medium of exchange. Using blockchain technology, the crypto-currency claims to process global transactions more efficiently and instantly, especially outside the limitations of borders and other currencies.

However, bitcoin is a limited medium of exchange restricted to those who accept it. It carries no buyer protection mechanisms against fraud and error found in more traditional methods and instruments like credit cards. Indeed, its lack of security and transparency is a major concern that undermines its reliability.

Just sharing... :)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:18 am 
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BASTA TALO PA RIN AKO NG 200$ ,PERO UMAANGAT NA NAMAN, ITS NOW ABOVE 11k BITCOIN. DI KO NA ITO I HOLD, BUMAWI LANG AKO AY SELL KO NA. DELIKADO TAYO SA CYRPOCURRENCIES,TAGILID. 8) WAG NA KAYO MAG BITCOIN :lol:


vicus2005 wrote:
Correction pls.

Today (2/16/18) as per Coinbase Graph, bitcoin has recorded the following (highest/lowest/present) price in Philippine Peso as follows:

1/1/18 = Php 669,304.40

2/6/18 = Php 371,101.82

2/16/18 = Php 519,232.60 (at about 8:50 am)

Like any commodity, bitcoin price is subject to the "LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND"

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:08 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:14 pm 
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https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:14 pm 
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Bitcoin is software with copy protection. That is all it is. It is best to think of any random bitcoin as a painting and the blockchain as its provenance.

Here is the definitive work on Bitcoin for the layman: (from True Dollar Journal)
http://truedollarjournal.blogspot.com/2014/03/bitcoin-is-software-protected-by.html


BITCOIN IS SOFTWARE PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT. BITCOIN IS NOT LEGAL TENDER CASH NOR IS IT MONEY.


Bitcoin is software. The law which governs property in software is copyright. In essence, Bitcoin is no different than musical works of the Beatles, which is the right way to look at Bitcoin.

Bitcoin trades for legal tender cash and bank credits, which can be converted into legal tender cash. Works of copyright also trade for legal tender cash and bank credits.

Speculating in copyright is a normal part of trade. Speculation in Bitcoin amounts to speculation in copyright.

In Anglo-American jurisprudence, property means right of ownership and never the thing owned. Property means the right to possess, the right to give away, the right to destroy, the right to recover upon theft.

In trade, people buy and sell property. They don't buy and sell things. When you buy milk from the market with cash, you buy the right to own the milk and part of that right is possession.

Yet, there are many times when people buy property, or right of ownership and never take possession. Few ever take possession of their stock certificates when they buy property in a firm as parceled in stock. Landlords never take possession of their rental property. Their tenants do.

Without doubt, Bitcoin is not "a peer-to-peer electronic cash system." Bitcoins aren't "electronic cash" nor are Bitcoins cash at all.

Cash requires bank credits. Cash is paper that evidences bank credits. Cash arises as an artifact of banking.

Whether legal tender or not, cash is denominated bank notes circulating as evidence of deposits. Deposits are bank credits. Denomination means named multiples of the unit of bank credits, such as a ten dollar bill, a twenty dollar bill or a one-hundred dollar bill.

Today, Americans have cash. Specifically, Americans have legal tender cash. So too do Canadians have legal tender cash, the Brits, all those of the Eurozone, the Japanese, and so on. Legal tender cash is centralized bank notes circulating in perpetuity. Seemingly, legal tender cash does the work of money, but never is cash actual money.

Money is coined metal by weight and fineness. The Romans said so. It's their word. Even the U.S. Constitution supports that concept.

When money existed, money gave its possessor currency. Money doesn't exist and hasn't for many decades.

Always, money can exist without banking and government. Cash only can exist with banking and banks. Never can cash exist without banking and banks. Not only does legal tender cash need banking, but also legal tender cash needs government.

Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer digital protocol for transferring property of copyright. Any specific Bitcoin is an arrangement of electromagnetic impressions — bits in a pattern — on a recording medium. Each Bitcoin is software with built-in digital copy protection that prohibits duplication.

In essence, that is all any specific Bitcoin is. Any Bitcoin, identified by its blockchain, is little more than a work of art.

As such, any specific Bitcoin identified by its blockchain falls under copyright. The copyright in Bitcoin gives anyone exclusive right to prevent duplication of a specific work of Bitcoin as designated by its blockchain.

Copyright gives the owner of a specific bitcoin, property in that bitcoin, or the right of ownership. Anyone who owns bitcoin can make copies of that bitcoin for himself in various digital storage media. However, when someone sells their copyright in bitcoin in a purchase and sale, the ability to use any copies gets lost owing to the Bitcoin blockchain protocol.

Currency means bearer negotiability. It doesn't mean cash. Bearer negotiability means the property (right of ownership) goes with possession. No need exists to prove title.

So when you buy milk at the Quik-E-Mart with cash, you don't first prove to the cashier that you own the cash. The cashier readily takes your cash and lets you walk out the store with the milk.

In a purchase and sale of cash for milk, the agents of the owners of the market buy property in cash and sell property in milk. You sell your property in cash and buy property in milk.

With Bitcoin, even though people seemingly are anonymous, the software everyone must use to manage transaction between two parties of trades with Bitcoins exists to prove title in Bitcoins. That is what the block chain mechanism of challenge and proof is all about.

Bitcoin lacks currency, because title must get proven of every Bitcoin in a trade. If Bitcoin gave any possessor currency, property in Bitcoin, that is the right of ownership, would go with possession. No one would need prove he owns a specific Bitcoin before trading it away in a purchase and sale.

Cash gives anyone currency, which is another way of saying bearer negotiability, precisely because no one needs to prove title to cash before selling cash and buying something with it in a purchase and sale.

Prepaid anonymous debit cards are the closest thing to electronic cash. All cash is evidence of bank deposits. Both cash and deposits are liabilities of bankers. Ask bankers. The smart ones will tell you what I have told you.

Bitcoin is more akin to "prisoner's money." Mostly, Bitcoin gets used to trade contraband in extra-legal purchases and sales. Basically, Bitcoin exists to facilitate heroin dealing where deals get made anonymously through the Internet while delivery gets made through legitimate package delivery services, such as UPS, Fedex, USPS, DHL, Canada Post and the like.

Many have been tricked by the metaphor used to explain Bitcoin, being fooled, nay, suckered into believing Bitcoin is banking-free cash, which is an impossibility, and into believing Bitcoin is money, also an impossibility, as money is coined metal by weight and fineness.

When people trade bitcoin for drugs and drugs for bitcoins, people are bartering. Such bartering is the same as trading a digital movie with copy protection for drugs and drugs for a movie with digital copy protection.

Bitcoin requires banking because no one would want to accept Bitcoin as payment unless also being able to sell Bitcoins for legal tender cash or bank credits of an established banking system. Without others willing to sell cash or bank credits and buy Bitcoins, Bitcoins would be useless.

Bitcoins are as dependent upon banks and banking as any other copyrighted product put on offer for trade in purchases and sales for cash and credit.

At day's end, if ever before a legitmate court, Bitcoin shall end up being ruled as incorporeal, immaterial chattels jura in re propria.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:28 pm 
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So we can truly understand Bitcoin,we check out the following: (from True Dollar Journal)

http://truedollarjournal.blogspot.com/2014/02/from-bitcoin-to-shitcoin-in-only-few.html


FROM BITCOIN TO SHITCOIN IN ONLY A FEW DAYS
(dated Feb. 25, 2014)

It's all over mainstream media. Reuters, Forbes, and many others — all say that bitcoin has taken a serious blow because of the collapse of the Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange.

I don't see how anyone could have trusted their bitcoins to Mt. Gox, a web site started by a guy to buy and sell geek cards for the game Magic: The Gathering, hence the name Magic: the Gathering Online Exchange.

I don't get bitcoin at all, I guess. I thought that anyone installed a piece of software on his computer, called a wallet, and then by buying bitcoin from someone else through selling cash or checking account credit, that one always had his bitcoins as long as his hard drive didn't crash or he didn't lose his computer or forget his wallet password.

I thought bitcoin exchanges existed only for those who wanted to sell out of bitcoin and buy bank credits denominated in dollars, yen, euros, krone or Swiss francs; or for those who wanted to buy bitcoins, perhaps to sit on those coins hoping to gain appreciation relative to bank credits denominated in central bank cash of one of the many centralized bank note systems in operation today, or maybe to buy drugs who deliver drugs through postal services.

So I thought that bitcoin exchanges were like down-the-street, real-life gold and silver coin dealers, numismatists who buy and sell gold and silver coins and rounds and the like. I thought bitcoin exchange operators earned their profit from either charging a fee in bank credits of a designated banking system (USD, EUR, JPY, GBP, CHF, CAD, AUD, NOK, etc.) above the trading price of bitcoin as a small percent for handling exchange or they charged a part of bitcoin for exchanging bitcoins into bank credits of various kinds.

So I don't see how a bitcoin exchange could lose anyone's bitcoins unless they also were providing a warehouse service. But why would anyone use a warehouse service giving up possession in his bitcoins?

Doesn't using a warehouse service defeat the purpose of being in control of one's bitcoins and being anonymous? Could not any government agents raid any bitcoin exchange and examine by IP addresses and other digital fingerprints to discover who owns those bitcoin warehouse accounts?

Recent articles in Forbes attack bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme and as presenting problems to American retailers with sales tax liability.

It is illusory that anyone possessing bitcoin has currency, which is another way of saying bearer negotiability, or the property in the bitcoin goes with every exchange without needing proof of ownership, the same as cash, unlike bank credit. Every transfer of bitcoin requires challenge and proof of property, that is, proof of exclusivity, which amounts to de facto ownership.

In the real world, when a right of ownership (property) dispute arises, people have recourse. They can plead their cases in court regulated by law in the administration of justice. In the Bitcoin world, if someone swipes your bitcoins from your bitcoin wallet, you become the loser with no recourse.

Bitcoin is a weak circulating medium. So few retailers take bitcoin relative to the hundreds of millions of retailers the earth over who take bank credits seemlessly and without doubt who always take cash of the local banking system. It would be a stretch to say that more than 2,500 retailers the earth over take bitcoin. SpendBitcoins publishes this directory of firms, which accept bitcoins as payment.

Supposedly, as the story goes, a computer-geek named Satoshi Nakamoto published an academic paper in 2008 detailing a digital payment system that would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without the need of the central clearing house of any banking system. Bitcoins get created by computers programmed by individuals to solve complex mathematical problems, which require significant real computing resources, like equipment and electricity.

There is a finite number of coins which can get mined and that number is 21 million. Bitcoins get produced on a schedule of 25 bitcoins about every ten minutes. In 2017, that schedule changes to 12.5 bitcoins every ten minutes. In turn, that shall get halved ever four years until 127 years from now, in 2140, when the final bitcoin shall be generated, assuming that bitcoins acceptance survives that long.

Right now, over 11 million bitcoins have been generated and now are in possession of some. Each bitcoin can be divided by anyone in possession to eight decimal places, making the smallest division 0.00000001 of a bitcoin. This division is known as a satoshi.

As I understand it, when anyone installs wallet software on his computer, he gets a complete ledger that details every transaction ever conducted using the specific bitcoins in his wallet. In geek-speak, each bitcoin has a record of transactions associated with it known as "block chain."

Known as peer-to-peer, the bitcoin system records all transactions publicly with a timestamp, which lets bitcoin users agree on a history of the order of transaction as a method to block anyone from trying to spend the same coin twice. According to Satoshi Nakamoto, the bitcoin system is vulnerable from a group of attacker nodes against an honest node.

If anyone loses his wallet, all his bitcoins get lost, not only for him, but everyone else as well. The lost bitcoins remain in the tally of mined coins, but no one can get access to those coins to spend those coins. In effect, it is as if someone rocketed those coins into deep space.

There seems little reason for anyone to be involved with bitcoins. Online retailers and retailers the earth over accept debit cards, credit cards and often Paypal. And who doesn't accept cash as payment?

There is no recourse through bitcoins. No one can plead right of action in court for recovery against fraud.

Just sharing... :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:44 am 
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Hmmm...it just dawned on me that:

BTC on 01/09/2009 = zero USD, EUR, GBP, etc. (zero market cap)

BTC today = US$11,177.30 (with a US$188,614,556,735 market cap and a 24-hour volume of $7,704,900,000)

That's just in 9 years...and it does not include the activities and market caps/economies of other cryptos. No centralized banking involved. Just organically through an open market system.

I had been oblivious to these facts, perhaps because I have been preoccupied with having way too much fun in the process. :biglaugh:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:00 am 
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Bitcoin: Big in investing, but still lousy for buying a sandwich

Cryptocurrencies so far haven't lived up to their promise as digital cash for buying goods and services. Whether that happens someday is anyone's guess.


This is part of "Blockchain Decoded," a series looking at the impact of blockchain, bitcoin and cryptocurrency on our lives.

Ever the tech enthusiast, Bert Green decided to start accepting bitcoin at his Chicago storefront in 2013, becoming one of the first art galleries in the US to accept the digital currency as payment.

Things didn't work out as planned.

"It's hardly ever happened," he said, recalling just two sales using the cryptocurrency over the past four years at his gallery, Bert Green Fine Art. "People do not transact in bitcoin."

Green's experience isn't unique. Despite bitcoin and other digital currencies being billed as -- you know -- currencies, they've instead turned into investment vehicles or stores of wealth. That shift appears to have sped up last year, when bitcoin's price skyrocketed from $1,000 last February to nearly $20,000 by December -- causing cryptocurrency to become a topic at the family dinner table.

This lack of spending with cryptocurrencies could limit their future potential. Bitcoin, ethereum and other digital currencies may remain in the realm of investors and crypto enthusiasts, instead of becoming long-sought universal monies that people use every day and can be spent at any store or website around the world.

Even after bitcoin's price tumbled this year, chances that it could reach that promise are anyone's guess.

"That is the $64,000 question, that is, what's the next narrative for bitcoin?" said Nick Colas, co-founder of the independent research firm DataTrek Research, who's been following cryptocurrencies since 2012. "It's really hard to pin down and that's why the price is so volatile."

The headaches of bitcoin lunch
Things weren't always this way. Back in 2013, bitcoin was being trumpeted as the next, new currency, unfettered by governments, easily movable across borders and anonymous for users.

Looking to take part in this new concept, Kashmir Hill, now a senior reporter in San Francisco for Gizmodo Media Group, spent a week that year living solely on bitcoin, writing about her experience for Forbes. It was a giant pain just finding retailers that would accept the currency.

She did the same experiment a year later and found more retailers accepted the digital tokens, but she bumped up against plenty of other problems. One day, she tried to buy lunch at a local market that accepted bitcoin. Her payment didn't go through so she left starving, she said. The transaction completed about two hours later and she had to go back the next day to get her meal.

"In my experience, bitcoin was so annoying that it was hard to imagine it becoming easier than going to the local ATM and getting money," she said.

In another situation, Hill said she bought a bunch of strangers dinner at a sushi restaurant in 2013 for 10 bitcoin, the equivalent at the time of $1,200. The price of those bitcoin today would be roughly $93,000.

"I just don't know how I could again spend this currency that could be worth so much more," she added. "I think I would be going crazy while doing it."

Hill's experiment revealed a bunch of annoyances with spending with bitcoin. It's only accepted in a small fraction of retailers, and using it to buy stuff isn't all that simple, often requiring sending funds from one digital wallet to another using an online address called a public key. Plus, cryptocurrency fans don't want to part with their digital tokens for fear they'll miss out on the next big run-up in prices.

One of the best-known examples of missed opportunities with bitcoin came from one of the earliest transactions using the currency. In 2010, when bitcoin was worth a fraction of a penny, Florida software programmer Laszlo Hanyecz agreed to pay someone 10,000 bitcoin for two Papa John's pizzas.

"Those are the two most expensive pizzas in the history of the planet," Colas said. (This week, they'd be worth approximately $93 million -- or $46.5 million per pie.)

BLOCKCHAIN DECODED
Cryptocurrency like bitcoin is easy money for criminals
Blockchain ensures that your online baby food order is legit
Blockchain explained: It builds trust when you need it most
What is bitcoin? Here's everything you need to know
With so few people agreeing to part ways with their bitcoin, some retailers have stopped accepting it. The gaming company Valve in December said it would stop taking the currency on its Steam service, citing its high fees and volatility. OKCupid, too, dropped bitcoin, saying a tiny percentage of people used it on the dating site.

The e-retailer Overstock.com started accepting bitcoin in 2013 and now takes dozens of cryptocurrencies as payment, including Dash, Monero and litecoin. Despite that, the company said roughly 0.25 percent of its revenue comes from purchases using cryptocurrencies.

Julian Plyter, co-founder and CEO of the Manhattan ice-cream sandwich shop Melt, said his business has made just 75 transactions with bitcoin between 2014 and 2017. But, he added, many of those transactions were with journalists curious how bitcoin buying works.

Better on the dark web
Slow bitcoin sales aren't a drag for everyone, though. Lior Rachmany, CEO of Dumbo Moving in Brooklyn, started accepting bitcoin, ethereum and litecoin a few months ago.

While these crypto-sales make up just 5 percent of his business, he likes using digital money because transactions are irreversible, ensuring he'll get paid for a move without fear a customer will charge back the transaction. Plus, past moves have the potential of accruing in value as bitcoin prices rise and some international customers found it easier to use, he said.

He's now planning on selling some of his company's crypto reserves for cash to stock up on equipment ahead of the summer moving season.

"I think that's the way of the future, less politics behind the money," Rachmany said. "And I think everybody should get on it."

These benefits for retailers, of course, can also be seen as disincentives for consumers.

"It's a final transaction. It's like handing someone cash on the sidewalk," Green said.

One area that bitcoin is still regularly used for transactions is the dark web. Thanks to the currency's anonymity, it's found a following for money laundering, murder for hire, drugs and ransomware.

On a daily basis, an estimated 20 percent of overall bitcoin transfers -- roughly $50 million to $60 million -- are for illicit activity, according to Lance Morginn, CEO of Blockchain Intelligence Group, a Vancouver-based company that tracks suspicious bitcoin activity.

That reputation of being tied to illegal activities is another hurdle for bitcoin in reaching the mainstream. Morginn, whose clients include the US Department of Justice, said his company is working to cut down on that problem. In the future, he suggested, the currency may need to become less anonymous to thrive.

Green, the art gallery owner, stocked up on some bitcoin in the early days and now tends to use his reserves the same way as most other crypto fans. At times, he's traded it a bit between different cryptocurrencies and when business is slow he'll sell some to make ends meet. But for the most part he just holds onto it."

"I'm not spending it," he said. "I'm not using it for stuff, because I see a long-term value in holding it."

The Smartest Stuff: Innovators are thinking up new ways to make you, and the things around you, smarter.

Rebooting the Reef: CNET dives deep into how tech can help save Australia's Great Barrier Reef.



BY BEN FOX RUBIN

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 am 
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The banksters have taken humanity for a wild ride ever since their centralized monopoly of a deceptively legitimized scam existed. If one can't see the pattern of their M.O., then I don't know what can. But they keep coming back after each economic disaster they had caused, perpetuating their disastrous deed to date and obviously into the future for as long as humanity continues to be complacent, thereby allowing the banksters to have their way on us. They are a cancer to humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banking_crises

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_economic_crises


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