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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:33 pm 
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Not taking any sides here...I am just after the right of everyone to post...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:41 am 
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Quote:
kulukuy wrote:
Come to think of it, the mods should delete this thread and ban the OP (original poster). There is nothing "Tech" about it nor does it have any tech innovation to offer. It is purely a pyramid/MLM scheme...ummm...scam. Nothing more.


Oh man, where is this guy? I need you here dude. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:07 am 
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JABEZJ wrote:
Not taking any sides here...I am just after the right of everyone to post...

ok brad, adjusting the poll...............


for Man of Steel

0.

for kulukuy

0.


for right to post

1. JABEZ


mainitan talaga ang laban, dikit na dikit :shock:






:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:47 am 
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Langya ka peluboy... :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:55 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:05 am 
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Naging debate tuloy dahil kay Peluboy at Jabez ....

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:40 am 
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updating.............




for Man of Steel

0.

for kulukuy

0.


for right to post

1. JABEZ
2. JCOOL





:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:04 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:31 am 
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Investigation: Initiative Q claims 3 million signups for new payments schemes: but is it scam or legit?
Tom Rodgers | Crypto, Feature, ICOs, Legal & Regulation, News on Nov 7th, 2018 at 5:29 am

Exclusive: Initiative Q is not an ICO. It’s not a cryptocurrency. It went viral on Facebook. Tom Rodgers investigates just what it is…

Initiative Q. Something of a conundrum. The natural skeptic will find much to ridicule when he sees an advert that promises customers free money in exchange for zero investment at zero risk. To the seasoned scam hunter, it raises a lot of familiar red flags.

The countdown clock. The scarcity. Invite-only, and invite your friends to get access to what you signed up for. Alarm bells are ringing.

And it is not a cryptocurrency. As per its website, Initiative Q is at pains to explain how much it is not a cryptocurrency. And this giveaway of the Q currency is not an airdrop, and it is definitely not an ICO. So says Initiative Q, repeatedly.

Yet right there, on the front page of the website, this reservation at the simple cost of your email address is like “getting free Bitcoin seven years ago”. Why do they specifically mention Bitcoin if they don’t want people to think this is a cryptocurrency product? While they give detailed responses to our other questions, Initiative Q miss out this answer. Whether that’s by accident or design, we can’t be sure.

“We are of course well aware that the prospect of “free money” reminds people of well-known scams,” says an emailed response from founder Saar Wilf. “However, the only way we know to create a successful new payment network, is by coupling it with a new kind of money, and distribute that money for free to those promoting the network’s adoption.”

Just over 3,000Q, which the company says is 10% of the total supply reserved for each person, is put back for the post-registration period. You get 40% after inviting five friends to sign up. These look like classic Ponzi scheme tactics. Ones that get prosecuted by the US Securities and Exchange Commission, or highlighted by Action Fraud here in the UK every day.

The ‘estimated value’ of each invite spot has dropped from $50,000 last week to $30,000 this week. Who would turn down a guaranteed $30,000?

As the SEC’s official advice runs: “Guaranteed high investment returns are the hallmark of a Ponzi scheme. Every investment has risk, and the potential for high returns usually comes with high risk. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.”

And yet, as Initiative Q point out, they ask for no money up front. The founder can’t disappear with a suitcase full of cash if there’s no cash to fill a suitcase with.

Wilf told us that Initiative Q had signed up over three million people in the last three months. Three million. The snowball effect worked. Of that there’s no doubt. He should give his social media marketing person a pay rise.

There will eventually be two trillion Q in existence. 80% will be incentives, 10% go to the team behind Initiative Q, and 10% get put into reserves. This feels like the same deflationary artificial scarity model that cryptocurrencies employ. For comparison, the Bitcoin code states that there will only ever be 21 million Bitcoins. At time of writing, just over 17 million have been discovered.

Initiative Q is using the language of cryptocurrencies, but it is not a cryptocurrency. Yet it might use blockchain for dispute resolution. In some form. Or other. It’s pretty vague.

The Facebook advert

The real reason we’re talking about Initiative Q is because adverts went viral on Facebook over the past two weeks.

Why ask new signups to complete simple actions like sharing a pre-written Facebook post on their news feed? It adds legitimacy. It is more than an implicit ‘like’, it is an explicit endorsement of an unknown product, and one that potentially involves your friends or family’s money. Not to be trifled with.

Some shared posts included an actual hard cash amount you could earn, if only you offered your email address: “According to well-known economic models…the value of the reward would be around $130,000”.

Those sharing it aren’t dumb. The friends on my admittedly limited social list who clicked ‘share’ on this pre-written Facebook post were not the kind normally taken in by dopey scams. Among them were people with PhDs, scientists and natural cynics: those whom I thought would be the first to condemn an obvious fraud, who would normally greet the promise of free money with zero risk with at least a link to Snopes, if not outright hostility.



Who’s behind Initiative Q?

Saar Wilf is undoubtedly a very clever chap. A pro poker player who made $800,000 in winnings despite never placing in the top three in a competition? A tech entrepreneur who sold his Fraud Sciences business to Paypal for $169 million? Sure. He’s the main man behind this whole thing.

He’s also very willing to respond to critics.

David Gerard is one of the most respected and prominent tech journalists and a hardcore cryptocurrency sceptic. His book, Attack of the 50ft Blockchain, is a humorous look at the hype around the technology, along with a deep technical dive into Merkel trees, cryptography and databases. So when he says something is a ‘get rich quick scheme’, you tend to take notice. Mr Wilf takes Gerard to task for his criticisms, but he doesn’t shirk them either, in a detailed response here.

CryptoNewsReview gets the same treatment. We offer Initiative Q right of reply to our criticisms before we publish, and we get detailed responses direct from Mr Wilf.

The red flags

Initiative Q sounds too good to be true. That’s the heart of the reason why everyone is asking whether it’s a scam. The marketing tactics employed, the deliberate vagueness.

Journalists tend to be a cynical lot. The reason? We see the same scams, employing exactly the same psychological tactics, day in, day out. The fake scarcity, the hurried sign up, the ‘nothing ventured, nothing gained’ mentality.

Fear of missing out is a classic scam marketing tactic. If you missed out on Bitcoin seven years ago? Like 99.9% of people in the world?

Wilf’s entirely reasonable response is this: “Even from a cold business perspective, a database of merely names and emails may be worth a few tens of thousands of dollars at most. On the other hand, the fines and lawsuits we would incur will result in penalties hundreds of times bigger, and permanent damage to the team’s reputation. It makes no business sense to do so.”

The company has garnered a massive amount of free press from some of the world’s largest websites.

Digital Spy, Forbes, The Sun, The Financial Times’ Alphaville, all have published on Initiative Q. That’s what happens when something goes viral.

Wilf and I run through each one.

Digital Spy make a “get rich quick” claim but say nothing else negative, he counters. The Financial Times just repeat David Gerard’s claims. Forbes and Money Saving Expert are pretty positive, they say.

The one that gets under his skin is the oldest of the bunch, a Bitcoin Exchange Guide review from June 2018. It’s a “very superficial review”, says Wilf, “including making a false claim that Q is a cryptocurrency” which ends with a recommendation “not to invest in Initiative Q, as though this were an investment vehicle or something that required paying for”.

What does he say to the people who call Initiative Q a scam?

“We say that Initiative Q is not anything even close to a scam. Our objective is clearly and transparently stated. We do not ask for money. We just ask people to join. We ask for minimal data, just name and email. Our privacy policy is very clear and we also stated that we will destroy our database in case Q fails.”

That’s certainly an unusual claim. If Q fails, your personal details won’t get leaked to the dark web for Troy Hunt to expose, because they’ll delete their entire database. What exactly would constitute a failure, and how long he would wait to make this decision, is not clear.

The payment system

There’s no whitepaper. There’s no upfront team of engineers as you might expect from a payment system that promises to change the world. There’s a sales pitch for a payment network, which describes the current problems with credit cards, and promises that Initiative Q is building something special, but there are no real details on how this might happen.

This strategy will be familiar to anyone who has looked at investing in an ICO. Is there really a product behind the fundraising?

What Initiative Q are doing is raising an audience before they have a product. As per their own response to our questions: “Attempts at creating a new popular payment method have not succeeded in the past because of the adoption barrier – regardless of how advanced a payment system’s technology may be, if it is not widely adopted by buyers and sellers it will only have limited success. We have decided to overcome this barrier before developing the system itself.”

Initiative Q are quite happy to reveal they don’t have a payment system yet. They want an audience first, and they are very up front about the fact that they don’t have anything else.

Can it really be a scam, if they are transparent about what they do and don’t have?

“The idea behind Initiative Q is to first create a critical mass of users, which can then be harnessed to create the world’s best payment network. Therefore, currently our primary focus is to get millions of Q members registered, after which we will recruit the world’s top professionals in the space.”

But at the same time, without a product, they are promising value. As per their website: “Q retail volume is thus projected at 5-20 trillion dollars, assuming successful worldwide adoption.” And the Facebook advert says there could be $130,000 in it for early adopters.

So, without a product, where is all this free money going to come from? Initiative Q say it’ll be years before the payment system makes a dime.

One of the people I respect the most on my Facebook friends list is my old college tutor Steve Rayner. He got his degree in physics from Oxford, and a PhD in Astronomy from Durham. He’s no fool.

As he posted: “Whilst I doubt this can be as good as it sounds, it also seems harmless since all you can give them is your email address and you can always invent one for the purpose if you wish. Of course, it may just be an experiment in network mapping.”

It all comes down to the same thing we would say for any other product. Do your own research, and most of all, only ever sign up at your own risk.

https://cryptonewsreview.com/investigation-initiative-q-claims-3-million-signups-for-new-payments-schemes-but-is-it-scam-or-legit/


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:48 am 
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A lot of people have excitedly asked for their invitation to Q. But others think that this is just another get-rich-quick scheme with no substance. We liked Udi Wertheimer’s response to the Facebook post so much that we got his permission to repost it here. Read on:

“Let’s put aside your preposterous, arrogant claims of your made-up “currency” being worth $2 TRILLION USD in the future, despite being nothing more than a nice landing page at this point. I guess anything goes in the world of marketing. I have some questions that are more specific to your actual model:

1. Of the 2 trillion coins (“estimated” to be worth $2 trillion USD in the future), how many is the company going to retain after the launch airdrop is over? I couldn’t find this information anywhere.

2. Technically, the “layered approach” that the website alludes to, where a blockchain-like system would be used to settle between so-called agents, and various other significant economic players – while regular consumers would use a more traditional layer on top (with modern benefits) – makes a lot of sense. Sounds like a balanced, “best of both worlds” approach.

Except people are already doing this with Bitcoin. There are multiple solutions, both gateways to the traditional financial systems, and completely new payment systems (and many in-betweens) built as layers on top of Bitcoin in *excatly* the same way as you propose.

Your FAQ is berating cryptocurrencies for being a “brilliant solution to a problem that doesn’t exist”, but you propose the exact same system. Anyone who spent a long enough time in this space realizes that if cryptocurrencies are to be used as a medium-of-exchange, we would have to use a layered approach. Each and every one of your points can be easily countered by anyone who has any idea how these things work:

* “Transferring security risk to the currency owners” – the important thing about Bitcoin is that economic actors, large and small, can *choose* to handle their own security. That’s crucial for creating trust in the currency. But that doesn’t mean you have to. Many people use second layers to let someone else manage security for them, and of course this trend will continue.

* “Unstable value”: Your make-believe coin currently has a value of $0. If it’s ever going to be worth $2 Trillion (LOL), well, guess what, there’s going to be volatility on the way there. I find this argument particularly dishonest, considering your marketing material.

* “Legal controls”: Have you ever used Bitcoin at all? Sounds like you didn’t. While you can’t enforce regulations on Bitcoin itself (just like you can’t change the way gold behaves), you CAN enforce regulations on how people use Bitcoin. And governments do that, very successfully. Regulated exchanges and services exist all around the world, governments collect taxes, and everyone’s happy. A layered approach would allow consumers to be oblivious to all of this, and have all regulation and compliance-related matters taken care of for them. This is already happening.

* “Reversability” – this one should be obvious for someone with your background. There’s a lot of value in *Bitcoin the asset* being irreversible. Just like if I physically hand you an ounce of gold, I can’t use some sorcery to magically make it re-appear in my hand. This property helps establish trust within large institutions. BUT IT DOESN’T HURT CONSUMERS IN ANY WAY. They can use any number of “second layer solutions” to provide them with reversability (as long as the merchant agrees). Reversability is provided in the exact same fashion as your solution would provide it.

* “Waste” – that’s a very long discussion. Bitcoin isn’t wasteful, it just helps find use for excess energy *which would otherwise go to waste*. It’s gonna take a lot more than that to convince you, but I would suggest that if you’re going to compete in this space you’ll spend some time to explore this. This claim is very ignorant. So is the claim that bitcoin only supports 2 txs per second – it supports many many orders of magnitude more, using second-layer networks, just like the one you’re proposing (except they actually exist and aren’t just a paragraph on a landing page).”

https://www.cointelligence.com/content/initiative-q-viral-response/


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:17 am 
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Is Initiative Q a Scam?
Kevin McCarty

7 Nov 2018

Image

Over the past month, a new project named Initiative Q has been making the rounds all over social media. Hailed as “a modern payment network,” created by “the founders of PayPal,” the hype for Initiative Q is real.

According to their Twitter, Initiative Q claims they’ve received 2 million signups. Taking a look at their Google Trends results, you can definitely say that Initiative Q is going viral:

Image

They’ve accomplished this buzz using the greatest advertising tactic ever - free money.

Initiative Q is using the viral marketing strategy of using referral links to drive traffic, and it’s working. I can’t go ten minutes on Twitter without someone spamming me their referral link.

People who sign up on Initiative Q’s website get free tokens, and their token allocation increases if they get their friends to sign up. Everyone and their mom therefore, is shilling this “cool new project.”

Due to all this hype, a lot of people have been asking: is Initiative Q a scam? The answer is...it’s complicated, but in this article I’ll do my best to explain what’s going on.

Airdrop = Scam?

First things first, let’s discuss airdrops.

One of the claims that Initiative Q supporters make is that cryptocurrency airdrops are a great way to fund their trading accounts.

Airdrops have become very common over the past two years in the cryptocurrency space. As ICOs look to avoid regulatory hurdles, many projects are deciding to give away their token for free (in an airdrop) vs. selling it in an offering.

In general, I agree that airdrops can be profitable. If strapped for cash, airdrops provide a great way for cryptocurrency beginners to get into the game. However, here are three big differences between Initiative Q and standard airdrops.

#1 - Initiative Q asks for your personal information (more on that later)

Many legitimate airdrops don’t ask for your information, because they don’t care. Since they aren’t offering a security, it doesn’t matter who’s receiving the tokens, and therefore submitting personal information is unnecessary.

Initiative Q, on the other hand, asks for your name and verified email address. Why?

#2 - There’s no ETH address required

Most airdrops work by collecting Ethereum addresses and mass-sending their token to people who sign up. This accomplishes their goal of getting the token into as many hands as possible, without the difficulties of an ICO or mining launch.

Initiative Q does not ask for an ETH address, so there’s really no way to tell how they’re going to get the tokens to you. It does seem like they’re launching their own chain, but this means that…

#3 - There’s no guaranteed trading liquidity

Getting a cryptocurrency listed on an exchange is not an easy task, especially when the cryptocurrency features a new blockchain structure that the exchanges are unfamiliar with. We saw this first-hand with Nano, whose block-lattice structure caused headaches for exchanges who were trying to add Nano to their platform.

Even if Initiative Q is not a scam, and they have a real functioning product, there’s nothing that assures you’ll be able to sell it. Thanks to network effects, Ethereum tokens can easily be bought and sold on a variety of markets, meaning even the scammiest airdrop can be sold.

With Initiative Q it’s not so clear.

Token Metrics

Every ICO investor knows that the first thing you should look at when investigating a token offering is its token metrics, i.e. how the token supply will be split up.

The reason token metrics are important is because they show how much the developer team can influence price. Believe it or not, there are ICOs out there who use their warchest to inflate prices and dump on their community. Could this be the case for Initiative Q? Possibly.

Digging into the data, Initiative Q’s token metrics are not terrible, but there’s still something fishy. They are:

80% - incentives (buyers, sellers, agents, contributors)

10% - Initiative Q payment company (ding ding ding)

10% - Q monetary committee monetary reserves

For all intents & purposes, that’s 20% reserved for the Initiative Q company. That line item should set off the alarm in your head: it’s a company. Companies exist to make profits. What better way to publicize your company than by giving away free money?

It’s possible that Initiative Q is a legitimate company, trying to make a CashApp/Venmo ripoff, and that this token is just their way of doing viral marketing. Since they don’t have a product yet, we can’t tell, so let’s continue by taking a look at their...

Crackpot Claims

The first thing that should set off red flags is the ridiculous claims on their website. Right on their homepage, Initiative Q claims that by signing up for their airdrop, you’ll receive $40,000. For reference, that’s about the average personal income for citizens in the United States.

Do you really think Initiative Q would be giving away an entire year’s salary, just for signing up on their website?

Now, in their defense, they’re not giving away $40,000 worth of cash. They’re giving away

$40,000 in projected future value of their tokens. Which makes me wonder...how did they come up with that outrageous figure?

Insane Valuation

This is where things get interesting. I decided to read through Initiative Q’s website and tally up how they got to their laughable $40,000 airdrop value. There’s a long description on their website, but here’s the summary of how they got there:

Quote:
It is realistic to expect that such a network would eventually overtake credit cards, which account for $20 trillion in annual transactions. The total amount of money in the world is roughly half the annual economic activity. The value of all Q currency could thus reach half of Q’s annual volume (i.e. $10 trillion).

OK, so they think their cryptocurrency is going to be worth $10T. Putting aside the fact that this is larger than the implied value of all of the gold on Earth ($7T), let’s see what their supply is:

“Since there are currently 2 trillion Qs, the goal of one US dollar per Q is achievable.”

There we have it. Initiative Q expects to reach a market cap in the trillions, giving their token a value of bout $1. Does this seem plausible to you?

For comparison, let’s see how this stacks up to existing cryptocurrencies.

Today, the entire cryptocurrency market is worth about $205B. Even at its peak in late 2017, the market was only valued at $834B. Initiative Q is already overvaluing themselves, but let’s see how they compare to individual cryptocurrencies.

Right now, Bitcoin’s market cap is only $111B, and that’s as the number one cryptocurrency in the world. So, in order to reach 1Q = $1, the entire Q network would have to be worth 20x the Bitcoin network.

Sound plausible?

Today there have been about two thousand competing cryptocurrencies launched, all trying to knock Bitcoin off the top spot. It’s highly unlikely that Initiative Q is able to do what altcoins have been trying to do for years.

It should be clear to by now that Initiative Q’s claims are silly, but why are they doing this?

Data Vampires

One reason that Initiative Q could be doing this launch is to collect data.

Prior to becoming a Bitcoin maniac, I used to work in internet advertising. I know for a fact that data is valuable, and advertising companies will gladly pay heaps of money for access to good lists.

The data collected by Initiative Q is some of the best around. Everyone who signs up gives a name, verified email address, and shows that they are willing to put in energy to make money (signing up takes effort).

These emails could easily be used to advertise get-rich-quick schemes, or even worse, scams.

“But Kevin, they say in their privacy policy that they don’t sell our data!”

Sure, so does Facebook. That didn’t stop Cambridge Analytica from scraping illicit data and using it to advertise during the 2016 election.

A privacy policy also doesn’t stop another company from using your data. If Initiative Q is sold to another company, they have every right to change the privacy policy right under your nose. There’s no guarantee that your data is private.

If you signed up for Initiative Q, I really hope you used a fake email like Nada or Guerrilla Mail.

Elon Musk Wannabes

One of the hallmark ways to identify a cryptocurrency scam is to take a look at the team. If there are no public team members, or none that have a track record in technology, it’s possible that the project is a money grab.

Browsing Twitter, you’d think that Initiative Q is from “the creators of PayPal.” Search “Initiative Q Paypal” and you’ll find some surprising claims:

Image

Wow, I didn’t know Peter Thiel & Elon Musk were making a cryptocurrency! Let’s take a look at Initiative Q’s website to verify these claims. There’s no “team” page, so we can’t see who’s coding it, but there is reference to their leader:

Image

Saar Wilf is a real person, with a real LinkedIn page, but as you can see, he’s not the “creator of Paypal.” If you browse his work experience, you will find that he was the Founder & CEO of a company called “Fraud Sciences.”

Putting aside its hilarious name, it seems “Fraud Sciences” was a legitimate company, and that Saar was a director at PayPal from 2008-2010. It’s possibly this position means nothing, as Saar could have been hired only temporarily after the merger to facilitate a smooth transition.

What about the technology?

Image

Vaporware

The nail in the coffin for Initiative Q is that there’s no product. Most ICOs or up-and-coming cryptocurrencies will explain how they plan to build their network. They’ll usually draw up a whitepaper, diving deep into the technical details about the economic revolution they’re about to lead.

What about Initiative Q? Nope. No product, no details, no specifications. There is a roadmap, but you might find this a bit disappointing:

Image

Initiative Q seems to be collecting your data so that they can put you on their network when it launches in three years. Hmm...in the meantime, maybe we can find some information about what they plan to do. There isn’t much, but we do find that Initiative Q claims they’re better than cryptocurrency:

This FAQ section continues to explain why Initiative Q is better than Bitcoin. Their reasons include price volatility, legal controls, irreversible transactions, and energy waste.

Any experienced Bitcoiner knows that these arguments are baseless FUD, but if you’d like to hear them tore apart one by one, Udi Wertheimer does a great job of dismantling these claims in this article.

Based on all the information I’ve seen so far, it seems Initiative Q is just another payment processor. Similar to PayPal, Venmo, CashApp, or even Facebook Payments, that will be a centralized, censorship-friendly payment app.

I could be wrong, but we won’t know for sure until their product launches...in 2021.

Final Note

To wrap up this takedown, I’d like to address not Initiative Q, but their supporters. Throughout my research of Initiative Q, I had a million conversations with Initiative Q proponents that ended the same way:

“Well….it’s worth a shot!”

Yes, it’s possible that Initiative Q is not a scam. It’s possible that they’re just a company orchestrating a brilliant viral marketing campaign, and there’s nothing wrong with that. PayPal, CashApp, and even Coinbase all offer referral programs (in real money) to attract new users.

My problem with Initiative Q is that it shows where people’s priorities lie. There are a million ways to make money in the world, especially in the cryptocurrency space, and it’s disappointing seeing so many people wasting their time on gambles like this.

Time is precious, and every second used by Initiative Q’s affiliates to promote this possible scam could’ve been used to do something that’s actually profitable. No one got rich playing scratch-offs. True wealth is created by learning skills and building businesses, not waiting for random internet companies to hand deliver you $40,000.

https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/11/is-initiative-q-a-scam/


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Thank you for replying Kulukuy. Nice to read the other side of the coin. Keep it going :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:12 pm 
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What's the latest poll?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:52 am 
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Free money? PM me an invite.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:10 am 
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Here you go.

https://initiativeq.com/invite/S-y17Ufp7


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