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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Yes, these politicians are so desperate for any issue they can exploit to somehow get one over Duterte's admin now.... :?

I remember years ago


nagkaron din ng "investment opportunity" sa office that I was in

...it was creatively called alternately paluwagan, investment, startup banking et cetera...


it promised a hefty 75% return after 3 months :shock:

of course everybody knew it was a scam...

but also everybody could not resist taking a risk on such a high-yield opportunity :(




and for those who were more savvy, asking about how such an enterprise could manage to pay out such a ridiculous interest, terms like stock market speculation/virtual insider-trading, special treasury bill issues, bank cash-short covers were thrown in to convince them.......


after the third month when the really-early investors were paid off (and of course cut clean with their investments), the pyramid collapsed on itself...


the silver lining here is that almost everyone involved in the scam er investment was in-house...the brains was forced to opt for early retirement to cover the bigger shares...like 2M upwards :shock:

the perpetrators were still returning the investment money two years after they first started the scam :?



.....but with Kapa I guess that pastor can literally be in the wind in a matter of hours especially considering the amount of money he has bilked from those poor desperate people, and disappear without facing any jailtime :banghead:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:08 pm 
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The.Equalizer wrote:
Yes, these politicians are so desperate for any issue they can exploit to somehow get one over Duterte's admin now.... :?

I remember 20 years ago


nagkaron din ng "investment opportunity" sa office that I was in

...it was creatively called alternately paluwagan, investment, startup banking et cetera...


it promised a hefty 75% return after 3 months :shock:

of course everybody knew it was a scam...

but also everybody could not resist taking a risk on such a high-yield opportunity :(




and for those who were more savvy, asking about how such an enterprise could manage to pay out such a ridiculous interest, terms like stock market speculation/virtual insider-trading, special treasury bill issues, bank cash-short covers were thrown in to convince them.......


after the third month when the really-early investors were paid off (and of course cut clean with their investments), the pyramid collapsed on itself...


the silver lining here is that almost everyone involved in the scam er investment was in-house...the brains was forced to opt for early retirement to cover the bigger shares...like 2M upwards :shock:

the perpetrators were still returning the investment money two years after they first started the scam :?



.....but with Kapa I guess that pastor can literally be in the wind in a matter of hours especially considering the amount of money he has bilked from those poor desperate people, and disappear without facing any jailtime :banghead:


Donation ang KAPA so malamang hindi uubra ang kaso...
Pastor Apolinario can walk freely but he will be deadmeat once he gets out in the open...

Kawawa ang mga nadenggoy na mga tao..
Yung iba nagsanla ng lupa, nag loan, nagpagamit sa bakla, etc para ihulog sa KAPA...
In the end, nauwi sa wala... :(

We can't really blame people to join..
Sino ba naman ang hindi maeenganyo sa 30% interest rate per month...
Marami mga edukado, mga pulis, mga guro, mga businessmen, mga politiko, drivers, ordinaryong tao ang sumali..
May kumita, may nalugi...
The conclusion of the matter is: lahat sila nauto dahil nasilaw sa easy money... :(

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A GIFT…THAT’S WHY IT IS CALLED THE PRESENT “.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:24 pm 
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JABEZJ wrote:
The.Equalizer wrote:
Yes, these politicians are so desperate for any issue they can exploit to somehow get one over Duterte's admin now.... :?

I remember 20 years ago


nagkaron din ng "investment opportunity" sa office that I was in

...it was creatively called alternately paluwagan, investment, startup banking et cetera...


it promised a hefty 75% return after 3 months :shock:

of course everybody knew it was a scam...

but also everybody could not resist taking a risk on such a high-yield opportunity :(




and for those who were more savvy, asking about how such an enterprise could manage to pay out such a ridiculous interest, terms like stock market speculation/virtual insider-trading, special treasury bill issues, bank cash-short covers were thrown in to convince them.......


after the third month when the really-early investors were paid off (and of course cut clean with their investments), the pyramid collapsed on itself...


the silver lining here is that almost everyone involved in the scam er investment was in-house...the brains was forced to opt for early retirement to cover the bigger shares...like 2M upwards :shock:

the perpetrators were still returning the investment money two years after they first started the scam :?



.....but with Kapa I guess that pastor can literally be in the wind in a matter of hours especially considering the amount of money he has bilked from those poor desperate people, and disappear without facing any jailtime :banghead:


Donation ang KAPA so malamang hindi uubra ang kaso...
Pastor Apolinario can walk freely but he will be deadmeat once he gets out in the open...

Kawawa ang mga nadenggoy na mga tao..
Yung iba nagsanla ng lupa, nag loan, nagpagamit sa bakla, etc para ihulog sa KAPA...
In the end, nauwi sa wala... :(

We can't really blame people to join..
Sino ba naman ang hindi maeenganyo sa 30% interest rate per month...
Marami mga edukado, mga pulis, mga guro, mga businessmen, mga politiko, drivers, ordinaryong tao ang sumali..
May kumita, may nalugi...
The conclusion of the matter is: lahat sila nauto dahil nasilaw sa easy money... :(



:shock: :lol:




may binanggit ang NBI regarding the aspect of donation...


that while the term used is "donation"....the fact that there is still a form of "payback" to some of these "donors" will negate the donation cover...

in effect, what actually happened about earnings returned to some of the donors may prove that the alleged donation is in fact a form of "investment", under an enticement that may be a form of pyramid scam :?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:50 pm 
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The.Equalizer wrote:
JABEZJ wrote:
The.Equalizer wrote:
Yes, these politicians are so desperate for any issue they can exploit to somehow get one over Duterte's admin now.... :?

I remember 20 years ago


nagkaron din ng "investment opportunity" sa office that I was in

...it was creatively called alternately paluwagan, investment, startup banking et cetera...


it promised a hefty 75% return after 3 months :shock:

of course everybody knew it was a scam...

but also everybody could not resist taking a risk on such a high-yield opportunity :(




and for those who were more savvy, asking about how such an enterprise could manage to pay out such a ridiculous interest, terms like stock market speculation/virtual insider-trading, special treasury bill issues, bank cash-short covers were thrown in to convince them.......


after the third month when the really-early investors were paid off (and of course cut clean with their investments), the pyramid collapsed on itself...


the silver lining here is that almost everyone involved in the scam er investment was in-house...the brains was forced to opt for early retirement to cover the bigger shares...like 2M upwards :shock:

the perpetrators were still returning the investment money two years after they first started the scam :?



.....but with Kapa I guess that pastor can literally be in the wind in a matter of hours especially considering the amount of money he has bilked from those poor desperate people, and disappear without facing any jailtime :banghead:


Donation ang KAPA so malamang hindi uubra ang kaso...
Pastor Apolinario can walk freely but he will be deadmeat once he gets out in the open...

Kawawa ang mga nadenggoy na mga tao..
Yung iba nagsanla ng lupa, nag loan, nagpagamit sa bakla, etc para ihulog sa KAPA...
In the end, nauwi sa wala... :(

We can't really blame people to join..
Sino ba naman ang hindi maeenganyo sa 30% interest rate per month...
Marami mga edukado, mga pulis, mga guro, mga businessmen, mga politiko, drivers, ordinaryong tao ang sumali..
May kumita, may nalugi...
The conclusion of the matter is: lahat sila nauto dahil nasilaw sa easy money... :(



:shock: :lol:




may binanggit ang NBI regarding the aspect of donation...


that while the term used is "donation"....the fact that there is still a form of "payback" to some of these "donors" will negate the donation cover...

in effect, what actually happened about earnings returned to some of the donors may prove that the alleged donation is in fact a form of "investment", under an enticement that may be a form of pyramid scam :?


May naka hide pa na hindi mo napansin... :lol:

Another defense naman is religous institution daw ang KAPA..
Kaya wala daw tax just like RC, INC, Quibuloy, Soriano, Mike Velarde, etc...
Sabi naman ng iba, hindi daw ito pyramiding scheme...

Pero if I am Digong, I will meet with KAPA and compel them to return everyone's investment..within a month..
If that happens, he will be a hero again and not a villain in the eyes of the people...

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“YESTERDAY IS HISTORY, TOMORROW A MYSTERY, AND TODAY
A GIFT…THAT’S WHY IT IS CALLED THE PRESENT “.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:53 am 
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:shock:
JABEZJ wrote:
May naka hide pa na hindi mo napansin... :lol:

Another defense naman is religous institution daw ang KAPA..
Kaya wala daw tax just like RC, INC, Quibuloy, Soriano, Mike Velarde, etc...
Sabi naman ng iba, hindi daw ito pyramiding scheme...

Pero if I am Digong, I will meet with KAPA and compel them to return everyone's investment..within a month..
If that happens, he will be a hero again and not a villain in the eyes of the people...


JABEZJ wrote:
Kawawa ang mga nadenggoy na mga tao..
Yung iba nagsanla ng lupa, nag loan, nagpagamit sa bakla, etc para ihulog sa KAPA...
In the end, nauwi sa wala... :(

We can't really blame people to join..
Sino ba naman ang hindi maeenganyo sa 30% interest rate per month...
Marami mga edukado, mga pulis, mga guro, mga businessmen, mga politiko, drivers, ordinaryong tao ang sumali..
May kumita, may nalugi...


kailangan doble pasada muna habang binabawi ang nalokong pera tsk :?



matagal na din tayo pinapahirapan ng special privileges accorded religions...


the argument of those who want to maintain the status quo--the clergy, pastors and other church personnel themselves--is that it is embedded in our consitution...therefore not open for debate :shock:



......pero if there are some things that need amending in that 1987 Constitution, they are, one, a specific anti-political dynasty clause, and two, the dropping of special privileges of religion--that includes tax exemption and a blanket authority to criticize and agitate the people towards any agenda they choose to champion, with absolutely no accountability :(


giving religion a say in our nation's political processes is an embarassing carryover from our conquered past.....during the Spanish rule, we as a people never had a choice in the matter....the friar aristocracy forced themselves on us, on the ruling government bureaucracy, basically on society........now that we finally had our chance at self-determination, why did Cory choose to legalize the political meddling of the Church with her Constitution ? ......it's just a trick question, of course......it was simply payback for the "help" that Cardinal Sin and the Church provided to topple the Marcos government and install her as the revolutionary government head...











:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:39 am 
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I think churches should be taxed particularly the business interest of the church...

Imagine El Shaddi doing real estate business pero walang tax??? :shock:
Or Quibuloy developing his kingdom in Davao City and without tax?
Or Manila Diocese into stock market without tax?

I know this is not ok considering may separation of church and state tayo pero prone to abuses kasi...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:26 pm 
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:shock:

Manay Jabz, although churches and religious organizations are generally exempt from income tax, certain income of a church or religious organization may be subject to tax such as income from an unrelated business.

Take note that churches are tax exempt under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy the free exercise of religion than to tax it.

“The power to tax is the power to destroy.” :)

Here’s an informative article:

https://www.returntoorder.org/2019/03/can-the-state-tax-the-church/

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:43 am 
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TheEnigma wrote:
:shock:

Manay Jabz, although churches and religious organizations are generally exempt from income tax, certain income of a church or religious organization may be subject to tax such as income from an unrelated business.

Take note that churches are tax exempt under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy the free exercise of religion than to tax it.

“The power to tax is the power to destroy.” :)

Here’s an informative article:

https://www.returntoorder.org/2019/03/can-the-state-tax-the-church/


I doubt if the realty arm of El Shaddai is being taxed...
Kasi religious group naman ang pangalan...

Or the business side of INC is being taxed.
Or the schools of Jesuits, OMI, etc...
Or Quibuloy and his business...

Kaya nga I posted na business interests of the church lang ang may tax..

Imagine this...the biggest player in stock market in the Philippines is the Diocese of Manila... :shock:

Compare the difference..
We tax small sari-sari store who earns some loose change compared to the income of businesses under the church...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:38 pm 
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TheEnigma wrote:
:shock:

Manay Jabz, although churches and religious organizations are generally exempt from income tax, certain income of a church or religious organization may be subject to tax such as income from an unrelated business.

Take note that churches are tax exempt under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy the free exercise of religion than to tax it.

“The power to tax is the power to destroy.” :)

Here’s an informative article:

https://www.returntoorder.org/2019/03/can-the-state-tax-the-church/


mang Enigma, if I may respond... :)

I believe the principle "The power to tax involves the power to destroy" was first put forth by US Chief Justice John Marshall, in McCulloch v. Maryland 1819...

his arguments were mainly in support of emphasizing the supremacy of the federal as against the local, that is, state, government...

the link you provided has very interesting points. I take much interest in its point about "separation of church and state," where it correctly traces the origin of the famous principle to Thomas Jefferson "assuring a group of Baptists that they need have no fear of the new national government. In other words, it was intended to protect religion from the power of the state."

...this proper interpretation, if i remember correctly, you also pointed out in maybe a different thread some time ago tackling the same topic of church taxation :)



however, I take the position that although this principle may have been formed with only the protection of the church from state persecution in mind, given the history of religion completely and unabashedly taking over state affairs, for solid and well-known examples the Holy Roman Empire, and much nearer and relatable, the Spanish conquest of our lands and the meddling of the clergy in absolutely all aspects of the Spanish government bureaucracy here, the more "complete" interpretation, that is, separation of church and state taken to be protection and non-interference both ways--is, not only warranted but, omission of which would be wantonly criminal :?



this may seem to be adding an interpretation that is not what Jefferson originally intended in his letter that started the "separation of church and state" principle, and yes, actually it is adding an interpretation that is not part of Jefferson's original idea...

...but proponents of those who want to preserve the status quo of tax-exempting the church, have also been doing the same thing with Justice Marshall's famous principle "The power to tax involves the power to destroy."

in the text of Marshall's arguments, he actually mitigated the perceived impact of this very phrase:

Chief Justice Marshall wrote:
That the power to tax involves the power to destroy; that the power to destroy may defeat and render useless the power to create; that there is a plain repugnance in conferring on one government a power to control the constitutional measures of another, which other, with respect to those very measures, is declared to be supreme over that which exerts the control, are propositions not to be denied. But all inconsistencies are to be reconciled by the magic of the word confidence. Taxation, it is said, does not necessarily and unavoidably destroy. To carry it to the excess of destruction, would be an abuse, to presume which, would banish that confidence which is essential to all government. But is this a case of confidence? Would the people of any one state trust those of another with a power to control the most insignificant operations of their state government? We know they would not.


....so in actuality, the coined phrase attributed to Justice Marshall is not actually shunning taxation of any random activity or enterprise in order to protect its very existence, as he eloquently stated in bold green text above...taxation may definitely be abused to the point of running a particular activity to the ground, so to speak, but then he continues

Chief Justice Marshall wrote:
In the legislature of the Union alone, are all represented. The legislature of the Union alone, therefore, can be trusted by the people with the power of controlling measures which concern all, in the confidence that it will not be abused.


he therefore puts the government to the task of not abusing its power of taxation, checked by its constituents, the very same constituents that form the churches...



if we are to be rigid in requiring derivative arguments to only conform to what the original principles and ideas were meant to be, I think it should go both ways...if we limit interpretation of Jefferson's "separation of church and state" only to his original protection of the church from the power of the state, then we must also take Justice Marshall's "The power to tax involves the power to destroy" in its original and full intention only.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Dito na kayo mag-usap...

Nosebleed ako sa English ni mang pelu... :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=288937&p=6718223&sid=555aa148d51f070753f6ae34cad2da52#p6718223

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:13 pm 
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JABEZJ wrote:
Dito na kayo mag-usap...

Nosebleed ako sa English ni mang pelu... :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=288937&p=6718223&sid=555aa148d51f070753f6ae34cad2da52#p6718223


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:14 pm 
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Warning Enigma and Equalizer...

Off topic kayong dalawa...

This thread is for cryptocurrency... :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:40 pm 
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:shock:














:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:10 pm 
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Double warning for Manay Jabz.....

1. For initiating an off-topic response to a legit post on the thread topic.

2. For counter-replying to an off-topic reply.

:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:18 pm 
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Mang Pelu, that’s quite a lengthy rebuttal you’ve posted above.

However, I don’t have the luxury of time to tackle every point you raised -- much less the impulse to ascertain the exact text of Chief Justice Marshall’s arguments. The last of the text, I suspect, you’re quoting out of context.

For now, I would suggest that you go back to that article to which I provided a link, because there is more to the "separation of church and state" than meets the eye. There are subtler points we can learn from the historical relationship between Church and State, particularly the unique nature of the Church.

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