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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
ajol829 wrote:
dang...cotto was out of sync....could not find his rhythm in the bout....had some moments....why wasn't he using his jab....to set his punches...wrong tactic imho


That's what happens when a once-skilled boxer is past his prime. He becomes awkward and falls a step behind. His footwork and reflexes don't coordinate with his body anymore.


Cotto has a great jab. But in Trout you're talking of a guy who has 4" reach advantage who is also adept at throwing the jab and has probably the faster hands. Cotto also couldn't outmuscle Trout who smothered Cotto whenever the latter got inside.


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Well, that would be a case in point but Cotto was lunging his left from Paris in that fight. He couldn't pull the trigger as much as he wanted even when he had Trout trapped against the ropes. There was a considerable gap in his offense and he tired out early in the fight. There's a huge difference between a young Cotto with a good jab and an old, shot Cotto with a good jab. Every bit of it showed up in later rounds.

Emmanuel53 wrote:
Probably so, but Cotto always had problems with his stamina even when he was younger. And true his age showed because he couldn't put his combinations together consistently, and his left hooks were wider and less compact, but power is the last thing that goes away from an aging figther and Trout was able to absorb Cotto's shots well.
At light middleweight ., I feel that even a younger Cotto would have problems with Austin Trout.

Maybe, but a young Cotto has great timing against speed. He proved that against Mosley, Judah and Yuri Foreman. Quick boxers who had reach advantage of no less than 4 inches like trout. Cotto fought on even terms on the outside.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:59 pm 
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onelenz wrote:
CarneSeca wrote:
Cotto's hope:

Angel Guillermo Heredia


yup his tired especially the championship rounds, he needs a good S & C +++ trainer :D

This, I think is the main problem with Cotto. Just look at Marquez. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
ajol829 wrote:
dang...cotto was out of sync....could not find his rhythm in the bout....had some moments....why wasn't he using his jab....to set his punches...wrong tactic imho


That's what happens when a once-skilled boxer is past his prime. He becomes awkward and falls a step behind. His footwork and reflexes don't coordinate with his body anymore.


Cotto has a great jab. But in Trout you're talking of a guy who has 4" reach advantage who is also adept at throwing the jab and has probably the faster hands. Cotto also couldn't outmuscle Trout who smothered Cotto whenever the latter got inside.


Quote:
Well, that would be a case in point but Cotto was lunging his left from Paris in that fight. He couldn't pull the trigger as much as he wanted even when he had Trout trapped against the ropes. There was a considerable gap in his offense and he tired out early in the fight. There's a huge difference between a young Cotto with a good jab and an old, shot Cotto with a good jab. Every bit of it showed up in later rounds.

Emmanuel53 wrote:
Probably so, but Cotto always had problems with his stamina even when he was younger. And true his age showed because he couldn't put his combinations together consistently, and his left hooks were wider and less compact, but power is the last thing that goes away from an aging figther and Trout was able to absorb Cotto's shots well.
At light middleweight ., I feel that even a younger Cotto would have problems with Austin Trout.

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Maybe, but a young Cotto has great timing against speed. He proved that against Mosley, Judah and Yuri Foreman. Quick boxers who had reach advantage of no less than 4 inches like trout. Cotto fought on even terms on the outside.
I agree, but at 154 lbs. I believe that Trout might still be a handful for a younger Cotto. Trout commits to the jab more consistently than either Mosley or Judah and while Trout might not be as explosive a puncher, he's definitely not powder puff like Yuri Foreman. And Cotto cuts easily too.
That's true too. Timing at times trumps speed. Just look at Marquez vs. Pacquiao.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:44 am 
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Past his prime.
Fought great boxers.
Time to retire.

Not a bum.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:06 am 
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trout was simply the better fighter.

cotto was schooled big time.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:08 am 
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One more fight and Cotto should consider retiring.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Lildevalt wrote:
In what specific rounds did Manny outjab Cotto? Compubox is telling me that Cotto outlanded manny by 19 jabs. Cotto's stiff jabs against Manny's tapping jabs. I'm not busy at the moment and i could use a few minutes of my time replaying what i'd missed.

On fresh legs, Cotto was doing good too in the early rounds. He managed to cut the ring well and connected some shots of his own. From mid rounds to the end, Cotto's stamina faded and those body shots he took from Trout took their toll.


Kuya, i never said Manny outjab Cotto..Im talking about how Manny answered Cotto's jabs in the early rounds which i also see in the Cotto Trout fight....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08kUTlcjCfU
Round 1 - 0:29
Round 2 - 2:00, 1:58, 1:46
Round 3 - 2:29, 1:50, 1:17
Basic southpaw weapon for ortodox jab


In your observation that Cotto faded in the later rounds due to body shots he took from Trout maybe right..but my observation tells me Cotto submitted due to his mental weakness as always the problem with him...When you see Cotto doing jumping jack in the ring that tells you he doesnt want to fight no more...jumping/running around the ring is not a sign of weak stamina hes simply avoiding Trout in the 2nd half of the fight like he already stop trying to win....


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Retz wrote:
One more fight and Cotto should consider retiring.


no more last fight, he needs to retire now.

unless of course we are talking of a farewell fight in puerto rico against a not so good/known fighter.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:48 pm 
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krayz211 wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
In what specific rounds did Manny outjab Cotto? Compubox is telling me that Cotto outlanded manny by 19 jabs. Cotto's stiff jabs against Manny's tapping jabs. I'm not busy at the moment and i could use a few minutes of my time replaying what i'd missed.

On fresh legs, Cotto was doing good too in the early rounds. He managed to cut the ring well and connected some shots of his own. From mid rounds to the end, Cotto's stamina faded and those body shots he took from Trout took their toll.


Kuya, i never said Manny outjab Cotto..Im talking about how Manny answered Cotto's jabs in the early rounds which i also see in the Cotto Trout fight....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08kUTlcjCfU
Round 1 - 0:29
Round 2 - 2:00, 1:58, 1:46
Round 3 - 2:29, 1:50, 1:17
Basic southpaw weapon for ortodox jab


In your observation that Cotto faded in the later rounds due to body shots he took from Trout maybe right..but my observation tells me Cotto submitted due to his mental weakness as always the problem with him...When you see Cotto doing jumping jack in the ring that tells you he doesnt want to fight no more...jumping/running around the ring is not a sign of weak stamina hes simply avoiding Trout in the 2nd half of the fight like he already stop trying to win....


Cotto = Mental Weakness
Bago to ah.
Cotto, fading in late rounds, is old news.
Cotto, mentally weak? That i cannot accept.
Look at his resume. He fought Judah, Mosley, Pacquiao, Clottey, Mayweather and MARGARITO twice? It appears he didn't duck anybody. Trout is not a devastating puncher, why would a newbie intimidate Cotto? Jumping/running around is Cotto's self-preservation trademark. When he's losing steam, he disengages and dances around. As seen in the fight, he was also clinching to survive because he was running out of gas. He was sloppy with his punches, probably arm-tired. If Cotto was weak, he would avoid another confrontation with Margarito. Cotto was planning to fight Canelo had he won over trout. Big plan for a weak man, eh?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Lildevalt wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
In what specific rounds did Manny outjab Cotto? Compubox is telling me that Cotto outlanded manny by 19 jabs. Cotto's stiff jabs against Manny's tapping jabs. I'm not busy at the moment and i could use a few minutes of my time replaying what i'd missed.

On fresh legs, Cotto was doing good too in the early rounds. He managed to cut the ring well and connected some shots of his own. From mid rounds to the end, Cotto's stamina faded and those body shots he took from Trout took their toll.


Kuya, i never said Manny outjab Cotto..Im talking about how Manny answered Cotto's jabs in the early rounds which i also see in the Cotto Trout fight....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08kUTlcjCfU
Round 1 - 0:29
Round 2 - 2:00, 1:58, 1:46
Round 3 - 2:29, 1:50, 1:17
Basic southpaw weapon for ortodox jab


In your observation that Cotto faded in the later rounds due to body shots he took from Trout maybe right..but my observation tells me Cotto submitted due to his mental weakness as always the problem with him...When you see Cotto doing jumping jack in the ring that tells you he doesnt want to fight no more...jumping/running around the ring is not a sign of weak stamina hes simply avoiding Trout in the 2nd half of the fight like he already stop trying to win....


Cotto = Mental Weakness
Bago to ah.
Cotto, fading in late rounds, is old news.
Cotto, mentally weak? That i cannot accept.
Look at his resume. He fought Judah, Mosley, Pacquiao, Clottey, Mayweather and MARGARITO twice? It appears he didn't duck anybody. Trout is not a devastating puncher, why would a newbie intimidate Cotto? Jumping/running around is Cotto's self-preservation trademark. When he's losing steam, he disengages and dances around. As seen in the fight, he was also clinching to survive because he was running out of gas. He was sloppy with his punches, probably arm-tired. If Cotto was weak, he would avoid another confrontation with Margarito. Cotto was planning to fight Canelo had he won over trout. Big plan for a weak man, eh?


Fighting everyone they put in front of you wont guarantee that youre mentally tough but watching them how their mind respond in the middle of a heated battle....I saw Cotto succumbed to Margarito onslaught, the way he was trying to survive when he fought Pacquiao by just running in the ring tells me hes mind cannot coup up in tough competitions..You will see Cotto running when the going gets rough, just like the case when he fought Trout...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Emmanuel53 wrote:
The left lead from a southpaw would travel a longer distance than the jab from an orthodox fighter.


Only if a southpaw didnt position his head outside of the jabber....

Ei, Ive been seeing you guys posting a lot here in new pacland so i thought you guys know this basic boxing im talking about.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Lildevalt wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
In what specific rounds did Manny outjab Cotto? Compubox is telling me that Cotto outlanded manny by 19 jabs. Cotto's stiff jabs against Manny's tapping jabs. I'm not busy at the moment and i could use a few minutes of my time replaying what i'd missed.

On fresh legs, Cotto was doing good too in the early rounds. He managed to cut the ring well and connected some shots of his own. From mid rounds to the end, Cotto's stamina faded and those body shots he took from Trout took their toll.


Kuya, i never said Manny outjab Cotto..Im talking about how Manny answered Cotto's jabs in the early rounds which i also see in the Cotto Trout fight....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08kUTlcjCfU
Round 1 - 0:29
Round 2 - 2:00, 1:58, 1:46
Round 3 - 2:29, 1:50, 1:17
Basic southpaw weapon for ortodox jab


In your observation that Cotto faded in the later rounds due to body shots he took from Trout maybe right..but my observation tells me Cotto submitted due to his mental weakness as always the problem with him...When you see Cotto doing jumping jack in the ring that tells you he doesnt want to fight no more...jumping/running around the ring is not a sign of weak stamina hes simply avoiding Trout in the 2nd half of the fight like he already stop trying to win....


Cotto = Mental Weakness
Bago to ah.
Cotto, fading in late rounds, is old news.
Cotto, mentally weak? That i cannot accept.
Look at his resume. He fought Judah, Mosley, Pacquiao, Clottey, Mayweather and MARGARITO twice? It appears he didn't duck anybody. Trout is not a devastating puncher, why would a newbie intimidate Cotto? Jumping/running around is Cotto's self-preservation trademark. When he's losing steam, he disengages and dances around. As seen in the fight, he was also clinching to survive because he was running out of gas. He was sloppy with his punches, probably arm-tired. If Cotto was weak, he would avoid another confrontation with Margarito. Cotto was planning to fight Canelo had he won over trout. Big plan for a weak man, eh?

krayz211 wrote:
Fighting everyone they put in front of you wont guarantee that youre mentally tough but watching them how their mind respond in the middle of a heated battle....I saw Cotto succumbed to Margarito onslaught, the way he was trying to survive when he fought Pacquiao by just running in the ring tells me hes mind cannot coup up in tough competitions..You will see Cotto running when the going gets rough, just like the case when he fought Trout...


When u see Ali dancing around, avoiding to engage Shavers and Foreman or Sugar Ray Leonard literally running away from Hagler and Duran (rematch), and to be even more latest to u - when u see Marquez backpedaling everytime Manny moves forward ......do u see all that as a sign of mental weakness?

For me, i call that self-preservation. Or strategy as it applies to a particular situation. it's hard to reconcile the thought of a mentally weak fighter accepting the toughest challenges around. What for? It's but natural for a fighter to ease off when he's tired and battered. Even Pacquiao backed off quicker than Cotto when Morales was chasing him down. And Tyson also clinched a lot when he got tired. So, are they mentally weak too?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:46 pm 
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krayz211 wrote:
Fighting everyone they put in front of you wont guarantee that youre mentally tough but watching them how their mind respond in the middle of a heated battle....I saw Cotto succumbed to Margarito onslaught, the way he was trying to survive when he fought Pacquiao by just running in the ring tells me hes mind cannot coup up in tough competitions..You will see Cotto running when the going gets rough, just like the case when he fought Trout...


What was your impression of Cotto when he chased Mayweather around like a hungry wolf?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Lildevalt wrote:
When u see Ali dancing around, avoiding to engage Shavers and Foreman or Sugar Ray Leonard literally running away from Hagler and Duran (rematch), and to be even more latest to u - when u see Marquez backpedaling everytime Manny moves forward ......do u see all that as a sign of mental weakness?

For me, i call that self-preservation. Or strategy as it applies to a particular situation. it's hard to reconcile the thought of a mentally weak fighter accepting the toughest challenges around. What for? It's but natural for a fighter to ease off when he's tired and battered. Even Pacquiao backed off quicker than Cotto when Morales was chasing him down. And Tyson also clinched a lot when he got tired. So, are they mentally weak too?


Kuya, its not hard to see the difference between Boxing and just literally running...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Lildevalt wrote:
krayz211 wrote:
Fighting everyone they put in front of you wont guarantee that youre mentally tough but watching them how their mind respond in the middle of a heated battle....I saw Cotto succumbed to Margarito onslaught, the way he was trying to survive when he fought Pacquiao by just running in the ring tells me hes mind cannot coup up in tough competitions..You will see Cotto running when the going gets rough, just like the case when he fought Trout...


What was your impression of Cotto when he chased Mayweather around like a hungry wolf?

I call it confidence, he gain it when Floyd cant back him up..actually that tells me he's no way in danger in that fight....just watching the reaction of his family when he was fighting Floyd, they are not even worried compared to when he was fighting Pacquiao and Tony


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