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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:06 pm 
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This is a fascinating thread. Thanks to all those that continue to contribute. :lol: 8) :D

I know several relatives, old-timers(brothers, townmates, etc) of my lolos and lolas that came to Cali before WW2. They used to tell stories of how, after working the fields (Delano, Fresno, Bakersfield, Salinas, Stockton, Guadalupe/San Maria, etc) that one of the things they would look forward to was to go watch their countrymen fight, generally against Mexicans.

Also, especially the ones that lived in LA/SF, how much racism they encountered. They were often called "little brown monkeys", or something like that. :? :( I've seen pictures of our pioneers hanging out "in Filipino Town" in downtown LA dressed to the hilt, wearing suits and ties).

I love this thread.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:35 pm 
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flipgolfer wrote:
This is a fascinating thread. Thanks to all those that continue to contribute. :lol: 8) :D

I know several relatives, old-timers(brothers, townmates, etc) of my lolos and lolas that came to Cali before WW2. They used to tell stories of how, after working the fields (Delano, Fresno, Bakersfield, Salinas, Stockton, Guadalupe/San Maria, etc) that one of the things they would look forward to was to go watch their countrymen fight, generally against Mexicans.

Also, especially the ones that lived in LA/SF, how much racism they encountered. They were often called "little brown monkeys", or something like that. :? :( I've seen pictures of our pioneers hanging out "in Filipino Town" in downtown LA dressed to the hilt, wearing suits and ties).

I love this thread.
I read somewhere that the Filipino boxing fans were not one to sneeze at, at the time. The Speedy Dado-Wolgast fight I mentioned earlier as having been boycotted by Filipinos in Cali, is officially recorded by many sources as: "ATTENDANCE-POOR" or "...VERY POOR."

Just the same, I have not been able to come accross any story that says officiating improved as a result of the boycott. Perhaps the effect was subtle. Perhaps none.

I don't really know. What I have noted though was that the likes of Kid Moro, Nationalista, et al, didn't get a crack at world titles (whatever version) even after the boycott although it seems that lesser fighters (caucasians, in most cases) were given such.

I dunno....some glance at the direction of the "mob's" control on boxing (Blinky Palermo...) others claim that it was just the times (the era was simply not "color friendly")...

edit/note: I am caucasian. :)


Last edited by grayfist on Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:43 pm 
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"If Bob Cousy were in the NBA today he'll be one big joke. However, he is a legend just like Pancho Villa. Sheez why'd I even bother to reply to this." - breinz wrote in this thread.

I honestly share your regret in replying to this thread, Why? Because it shows you don't have something that rhymes with your handle - brains! If Pancho Villa is the same 24 year old flyweight champion fighting today's crop of boxers, he would still be considered the best. While Pancho Villa would share the present technology as far as training and boxing rules, he would bring to the ring the same strength and durability - the ability to dish out power from both fists and the bull-strong and granite chin to absorb blows from opponents. We would bring the ability to last a fight of 20 rounds and ability to fight up to 20 fights a year!

By the way, if Bob Cousy is the same 24 year old pointguard of the Boston Celtics, he would still outshine most of the guards in the NBA.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Bro Grayfist,

Your contribution to this thread is awesome, and much appreciated. :lol: 8) :D

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:01 am 
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flipgolfer wrote:
This is a fascinating thread. Thanks to all those that continue to contribute. :lol: 8) :D

I know several relatives, old-timers(brothers, townmates, etc) of my lolos and lolas that came to Cali before WW2. They used to tell stories of how, after working the fields (Delano, Fresno, Bakersfield, Salinas, Stockton, Guadalupe/San Maria, etc) that one of the things they would look forward to was to go watch their countrymen fight, generally against Mexicans.

Also, especially the ones that lived in LA/SF, how much racism they encountered. They were often called "little brown monkeys", or something like that. :? :( I've seen pictures of our pioneers hanging out "in Filipino Town" in downtown LA dressed to the hilt, wearing suits and ties).

I love this thread.

Filpinos were called brown monkeys by the Mexicans??

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:05 am 
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breinz wrote:
THE_HIPPIE wrote:
CHAMP wrote:
Pancho Villa
(Francisco Guilledo)
Villa was an explosive and relentless fighter who hit hard with both fists, fighting in the fashion of a "miniature" Jack Dempsey. Many consider him to be the greatest Asian fighter ever. Among those he defeated were Johnny Buff, Abe Goldstein, Terry Martin, Jimmy Wilde, Benny Schwartz, Georgie Marks, Bud Taylor, and Clever Sencio

Villa died of blood poisoning from an infected tooth 10 days after his last fight. Both Nat Fleischer and Charley Rose ranked Villa as the #2 All-Time Flyweight; He was elected to the Ring Boxing Hall of Fame in 1961 and International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1994.
BORN: August 1 1901; Iloilo, Phillipines
DIED: July 14 1925; San Francisco, California (blood poisoning)

HEIGHT : 5-1 WEIGHT : 109-115 lbs MANAGER : Frank Churchill

1919
Kid Castro Manila, Phil W 4
Terry Pandong Manila, Phil W 4
Kid Cortez Manila, Phil W 4
Pedro Alberto Manila, Phil W 4
Young Edwards Manila, Phil W 4
Alberto Castro Manila, Phil KO 3
Cesareo Siguion Manila, Phil KO 2
Young Duarte Manila, Phil W 4
Jamie Desiderio Manila, Phil KO 2
Kid Elino Manila, Phil W 4
Kid Moro Manila, Phil KO 2
Jose de la Cruz Manila, Phil W 4
Pedro Olongapo Manila, Phil W 4
Jose Mendoza Manila, Phil KO 2
Baguio Bearcat Manila, Phil W 4
Baguio Bearcat Manila, Phil W 4
-Some sources report the previous 3 bouts held during 1919

1920
Pedro Capitan Manila, Phil KO 4
Frisco Concepcion Manila, Phil L 4
Kid Castro Manila, Phil W 6
Salvador Santo Tomas Manila, Phil KO 2
Big Cortez Manila, Phil ND 6
Jose de la Cruz Manila, Phil W 6
Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil W 6
Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil W 6
Juan Candelaria Manila, Phil W 6
Kid Cortez Manila, Phil W 6
Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil ND 6
Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil ND 6
Stiff Irineo Manila, Phil W 6

1921
Jan 10 Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil D 15
Jan 23 Juan Candelaria Manila, Phil KO 4
Feb 7 Kid Moro Manila, Phil KO 3
Feb 21 Terry Pandong Manila, Phil W 8
Mar 5 Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil W 10
Mar 26 Young Santos Manila, Phil KO 7
Apr 10 Kid Garcia Manila, Phil W 8
Apr 24 Stiff Irineo Manila, Phil KO 2
May 8 Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil W 15
May 22 Knockout Lewis Manila, Phil KO 4
Jun 6 Pedro Alberto Manila, Phil W 8
Jun 20 Leoncio Bernabe Manila, Phil D 6
Jul 11 Young Modejar Manila, Phil W 6
Jul 25 Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil D 15
Aug 9 Eddie Moore Manila, Phil LF 10
Aug 23 Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil W 20
Sep 7 Syd Keenan Manila, Phil W 8
Sep 21 Leoncio Barnabe Manila, Phil W 8
Oct 5 Mike Ballerino Manila, Phil W 20
Oct 19 Kid Aguila Manila, Phil W 8
Nov 3 Cowboy Reyes Manila, Phil W 15
Nov 10 Kid Aguila Manila, Phil W 8
Nov 17 Kid Garcia Manila, Phil W 8
Dec 8 George Mendies Manila, Phil KO 3
Dec 15 Jimmy Taylor Manila, Phil W 8
Dec 29 Battling Ongay Manila, Phil KO 1

1922
Jan 12 Kid Abayan Manila, Phil W 8
Feb 12 Georgie Lee Manila, Phil W 15
Mar 19 Max Mason Iloilo, Phil KO 4
Apr 1 Peter Sarmiento Manila, Phil W 15
Jun 7 Abe Goldstein Jersey City, NJ ND 12
Jul 6 Frankie Genaro Jersey City, NJ ND 12
Jul 19 Battling Murray Averne, NY W 6
Jul 29 Terry Miller Asbury Park, NJ ND 12
Aug 2 Johnny Hepburn New York, NY W 6
Aug 15 Sammy Cohen New York, NY W 8
Aug 22 Frankie Genaro New York, NY L 10
Sep 14 Johnny Buff New York, NY KO 11
-Flyweight Championship of America
Sep 21 Terry Smacka Newark, NJ EX 4
Oct 23 Danny Edwards Boston, Ma W 10
Oct 30 Patsy Wallace Philadelphia, Pa ND 8
Nov 17 Abe Goldstein New York, NY W 15
-Flyweight Championship of America
Nov 27 Young Montreal Boston, Ma W 10
Dec 29 Terry Martin New York, NY W 15
-Flyweight Championship of America

1923
Jan 1 Battling Murray Philadelphia, Pa ND 8
Feb 13 Frankie Mason Boston, Ma KO 5
Feb 20 Jack "Kid" Wolfe Philadelphia, Pa KO 3
Mar 1 Frankie Genaro New York, NY L 15
-Flyweight Championship of America
Mar 19 Young Montreal Philadelphia, Pa ND 8
Mar 24 Willie Darcy Waterbury, Ct W 12
Apr 23 Clarence Rosen Detroit, Mi ND 10
May 11 Battling Murray Chicago, Il ND 10
May 24 Bobby Wolgast Philadelphia, Pa ND 8
Jun 18 Jimmy Wilde New York, NY KO 7
-Flyweight Championship of the World
Jul 20 Abe Friedman Boston, Ma W 10
Jul 31 Kid Williams Philadelphia, Pa ND 8
Aug 22 Jackie Feldman New York, NY KO 3
Sep 8 Charles "Bud" Taylor Chicago, Il ND 10
Sep 24 Tony Thomas Boston, Ma W 10
Oct 13 Benny Schwartz Baltimore, Md W 15
-Flyweight Championship of the World
Oct 22 Jabez White Philadelphia, Pa ND 8
Nov 19 Joey Schwartz Detroit, Mi ND 10
Dec 5 Donnie Mack Toronto, Ont, Can KO 4
Dec 10 Patsy Wallace Philadelphia, Pa ND 8

1924
Jan 1 Tony Norman Pittsburgh, Pa ND 10
Jan 21 Mike Moran Pittsburgh, Pa ND 10
Feb 8 Georgie Marks New York, NY W 15
-Flyweight Championship of the World
Mar 6 Charles "Bud" Taylor Milwaukee, Wi ND 10
Mar 21 Georgie Lee Sacramento, Ca D 4
Mar 22 Billy Bonillas Modesto, Ca W 4
Apr 23 Eddie McKenna Cleveland, Oh ND 10
May 30 Frankie Ash Brooklyn, NY W 15
-Flyweight Championship of the World
Jun 10 Charles "Bud" Taylor New York, NY W 12
Jul 2 Henny Catena West New York, NJ KO 5
Jul 21 Willie Woods Boston, Ma W 10
Jul 28 Battling Murray Atlantic City, NJ ND 6
Aug 18 Amos Carlin New Orleans, La ND 15

1925
Mar 9 Francisco Pilapel Manila, Phil KO 8
May 1 Clever Sencio Manila, Phil W 15
-Flyweight Championship of the World
Jul 4 Jimmy Mclarnin Oakland, Ca L 10

http://rolandobohol.proboards55.com
viewforum.php?f=43
If Pancho was fighting today, he will just be another patsy or trisikad driver, he will even bow to Bert Batawang & Catubay.


If Bob Cousy were in the NBA today he'll be one big joke. However, he is a legend just like Pancho Villa. Sheez why'd I even bother to reply to this.

How right you are. How could Bob the lousy Cousy keep up with the John Stocktons & Steve Nashes or Dwayne Waydes of today?..

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:10 am 
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romwald2 wrote:
The_Hippie is telling the truth. If Pancho Villa were fighting today, I would say he would be worse than Batawang and Catubay, because he would have been 106 years old today!

But, if he had meant Pancho Villa's abilities pale in comparison to today's boxers, I'd say The_Hippie has just desecrated Pancho Villa's memory and have committed grave and despicable aspersion of such montrous proportions!

Shame on you! Your handle doesn't even fit you. The hippies I know were for love and peace. They've never insult an old man, better yet a dead hero.
't be blinded by legendary exploits in the ring. Sure, Villa was very great in his era but not today. Look at the way they fight, they fight w/o defense, w/o lateral movement. Their style is to punch, get hit, punch back that's all. They don't mind getting hit as long as they can hit them back. That style is just pathetic. Just because they were born before us doesn't make them greater than us or greater than who they truly are. How can that style of fighting match with the style of Donaire, Penalosa, Mijares or even the great Ricardo el finito lopez??

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:22 am 
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onyot69 wrote:
Snoring
blah blah blah blah blah...


Hey DUMB ***! Respect!

Yes obliviously thats all you been doing with your life...SLEEPING and SURFING GAY PORN!!!! :finger:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:31 am 
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You just can't easily compare fighters of the past to fighters of today because of the different training techniques. But at the same time, you can't say that fighters of the past wouldn't be able to thrive today because they arguably were tougher fighters, even with their less scientific technique. Honestly, if a no technique crap fighter like Daniel Ponce De Leon can give Gerry a run for his money, then I'd imagine that Pancho would too. Remember also that fighters back then went 20 rounds or so. Fighters today get spent after 10 rounds. Never ever underestimate the greats of the past. It's like kids saying that MJ wouldn't be as good today because there are so many more athletic players than in the past and the training techniques have improved. That's totally bogus.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:38 am 
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anignatoyn wrote:
You just can't easily compare fighters of the past to fighters of today because of the different training techniques. But at the same time, you can't say that fighters of the past wouldn't be able to thrive today because they arguably were tougher fighters, even with their less scientific technique. Honestly, if a no technique crap fighter like Daniel Ponce De Leon can give Gerry a run for his money, then I'd imagine that Pancho would too. Remember also that fighters back then went 20 rounds or so. Fighters today get spent after 10 rounds. Never ever underestimate the greats of the past. It's like kids saying that MJ wouldn't be as good today because there are so many more athletic players than in the past and the training techniques have improved. That's totally bogus.
They can go 20 rounds but most of it are clinching, holding.. Today, it is compacted to 12 rounds but as i say, 12 more action packed rounds. I remember during the 80s, watching these Boxing Friday nights, there were a lot of clinching back then.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:41 am 
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romwald2 wrote:
"If Bob Cousy were in the NBA today he'll be one big joke. However, he is a legend just like Pancho Villa. Sheez why'd I even bother to reply to this." - breinz wrote in this thread.

I honestly share your regret in replying to this thread, Why? Because it shows you don't have something that rhymes with your handle - brains! If Pancho Villa is the same 24 year old flyweight champion fighting today's crop of boxers, he would still be considered the best. While Pancho Villa would share the present technology as far as training and boxing rules, he would bring to the ring the same strength and durability - the ability to dish out power from both fists and the bull-strong and granite chin to absorb blows from opponents. We would bring the ability to last a fight of 20 rounds and ability to fight up to 20 fights a year!

By the way, if Bob Cousy is the same 24 year old pointguard of the Boston Celtics, he would still outshine most of the guards in the NBA.


FYI bro, I got the handle from a place in Switzerland where I tasted the best bitter chocolates ever so the snide was a bit off the mark. Kindly check the spelling. Bob Cousy outshining most of the guards in the NBA today, matter of opinion. If your rationale as far as the Great Pancho Villa is concerned were to be fact rather than opinion, then I guess he'd make a big joke even out of Pacman if he were alive today with the techs and rules eh? Good thing it is still a matter of opinion. Can't really agree with you tho.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:04 am 
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onyot69 wrote:
Snoring
blah blah blah blah blah...


your an azzhole!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:50 am 
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THE_HIPPIE wrote:
anignatoyn wrote:
You just can't easily compare fighters of the past to fighters of today because of the different training techniques. But at the same time, you can't say that fighters of the past wouldn't be able to thrive today because they arguably were tougher fighters, even with their less scientific technique. Honestly, if a no technique crap fighter like Daniel Ponce De Leon can give Gerry a run for his money, then I'd imagine that Pancho would too. Remember also that fighters back then went 20 rounds or so. Fighters today get spent after 10 rounds. Never ever underestimate the greats of the past. It's like kids saying that MJ wouldn't be as good today because there are so many more athletic players than in the past and the training techniques have improved. That's totally bogus.
They can go 20 rounds but most of it are clinching, holding.. Today, it is compacted to 12 rounds but as i say, 12 more action packed rounds. I remember during the 80s, watching these Boxing Friday nights, there were a lot of clinching back then.


There's also a lot of clinching today. And clinching in itself can also be tiring. Plus you also have to account for the gloves they used back then. Get hit and the easier you get drained of energy. Also, with bigger gloves today, the easier it is to hold the clinch. The reality is that they could go 20 rounds because they were tough physically and mentally, not because of the clinching. The reality also is that having a 12 round bout does not guarantee an action packed fight. Many fights are as boring as hell even if they last just 12 rounds.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:58 am 
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Just my take tho, fighters back in the day were able to go 20 rounds because they can't really dish out the kind of punishment like the well trained boxers these days can. Sure some may have granite chins, but those chins were tested against boxers who were not really trained better or technically to use some of the arguments here. No disrespect to the Great Jimmy Wilde, but my gym buddy (a she at that) throws more technically sound body punches than him. You can check out Wilde's style of body punching on youtube.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:12 am 
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No disrespect to you, breinz. Now, you're engaging in a lot more sensible discussion.

Here's the argument. If Pancho Villa were to live in our day and age, wouldn't he avail of the same training and regimen modern fighters get? Add these to his innate talent and inborn skills, wouldn't he be a formidable boxer? It's easy to see him fight circa 1920's and judge him in today's standards, but it's totally subjective. The same should be true to Bob Cousy, or Fred Perry, and all other legends of sports. Try to realize that sports would never be on the level it's at right now had it not been for legends and pioneers who excelled during their era.

Boxers and others sportsmen today owe a lot from these legends. There is no today if there was no yesterday, as there won't be tomorrow, if there is no today.


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