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Is Zimmerman guilty ?
yes of murder in 2nd degree 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No of murder in 2nd degree 33%  33%  [ 2 ]
yes of manslaughter 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No of manslaughter 33%  33%  [ 2 ]
yes of racism 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No of racism 33%  33%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 6
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:02 pm 
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hindi ko alam mod eh.

pero mukhang ang isa pang may problema dito ay yung batas sa florida mismo:

The shooting brought attention to Florida’s expansive self-defense laws. The laws allow someone with a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death to use lethal force, even if retreating from danger is an option. In court, the gunman is given the benefit of the doubt.

mukhang kahit manslaughter pa yan abswelto pa rin dahil sa definition ng self-defense laws sa florida, which appears to favor the shooters.

"Manslaughter, which under Florida law is typically added as a lesser charge if either side requests it, was a lower bar. Jurors needed to decide only that Mr. Zimmerman put himself in a situation that culminated in Mr. Martin’s death.

But because of Florida’s laws, prosecutors had to persuade jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. A shortage of evidence in the case made that a high hurdle, legal experts said.

Even after three weeks of testimony, the fight between Mr. Martin and Mr. Zimmerman on that rainy night was a muddle, fodder for reasonable doubt. It remained unclear who had started it, who screamed for help, who threw the first punch and at what point Mr. Zimmerman drew his gun. There were no witnesses to the shooting.

The state presented a case that was strong on guesswork and emotion but weak on evidence and proof, Mr. O’Mara said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/us/ge ... d=all&_r=0

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:11 am 
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studstar wrote:
hahaha, oks lang yan, we can all agree to disagree. napag-aralan ko kasi yan sa systems thinking na minsan yung mga cases na ganyan is a matter of loops, ang tanong yung gagawin mo ba eh reinforcing or balancing loop/reaction. sa kaso nga na ito, oo si trayvon 'mukhang' perp, oo si zimm eh within his rights na mag-alala given the previous events, ngayon mula nung sinabihan sya to stand down, para sa akin, yun na yung "balancing loop" na supposedly magbawas ng tensyon sa situation. yung pagsunod, one could even say stalking nya, ang "reinforcing loop" na nagtuloy sa tensyonado ng sitwasyon. sa pag solve ng mga problema, you have to balance the negative action, kumbaga eh huwag na dagdagan or i-reverse ng isang 'balancing' action. secondary na yung mga nangyari after, cause na yon ng reinforcing activity ni zimmerman na sinundan nya pa si trayvon.


Quote:
ngayon mula nung sinabihan sya to stand down, para sa akin, yun na yung "balancing loop" na supposedly magbawas ng tensyon sa situation.
The 911 dispatcher has to make a clear statement that it did not in any way put an individual in harms way when zimm was told " you don't have to follow him." but it's not legally binding. Although in the trial, there was no proof Zimm further followed Trayvon. " "he suddenly came out form the bush" as Zimm testified.

There's no law in US that says stalking is illegal although it can be viewed as a form or harassment. It you feel threatened or harassed because you are being followed, you call the authority. You don't confront the stalker and punch him in the face. You never know, that stalker could be armed and the stalker have every right to defend himself.

As an example,when a famous celebrity killed a paparazzi because he feels annoyed of them following him, do you think the celebrity is justified for self defense? or if the celebrity punched and choked the paparazzi and the paparazzi fought back, punched the celebrity in the neck and ruptured an artery and died, do you think the paparazzi won't be justified in self defense? The paparazzi will surely be justified in self defense. Whoever initiates the assault will likely be found at fault in most cases.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:28 am 
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studstar wrote:
hindi ko alam mod eh.

pero mukhang ang isa pang may problema dito ay yung batas sa florida mismo:

The shooting brought attention to Florida’s expansive self-defense laws. The laws allow someone with a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death to use lethal force, even if retreating from danger is an option. In court, the gunman is given the benefit of the doubt.

mukhang kahit manslaughter pa yan abswelto pa rin dahil sa definition ng self-defense laws sa florida, which appears to favor the shooters.

the "stand your ground law" is not even applicable in this case. trayvon is on top of zimm lying on his back. where else can he go?

"
Quote:
Manslaughter, which under Florida law is typically added as a lesser charge if either side requests it, was a lower bar. Jurors needed to decide only that Mr. Zimmerman put himself in a situation that culminated in Mr. Martin’s death.

But because of Florida’s laws, prosecutors had to persuade jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. A shortage of evidence in the case made that a high hurdle, legal experts said.


how could the prosecutors convince the jury that Zimm did not act in self defense when he had a busted nose and a cut at the back of his head while Trayvon got some marks on his knuckles and 1 gunshot wound to his heart. Forensic also reported that the shot was at point blank range and there's some gun powder residue on his hoodie that supports Zimms story that Trayvon was on top of him when he shot him.

Quote:
Even after three weeks of testimony, the fight between Mr. Martin and Mr. Zimmerman on that rainy night was a muddle, fodder for reasonable doubt. It remained unclear who had started it, who screamed for help, who threw the first punch and at what point Mr. Zimmerman drew his gun. There were no witnesses to the shooting.

the prosecution conceded the fact that trayvon threw the punch and that he was on top of Zimm in a way they they did not make further rebuttal against the defens' contention. It doesn't make sense to think that the one who will scream for help is the person who never called 911 when he has all the time in the world to do it.

Quote:
The state presented a case that was strong on guesswork and emotion but weak on evidence and proof, Mr. O’Mara said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/us/ge ... d=all&_r=0

How could anyone argue what O'Mara said on this statement?

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"I like it when you all disagree with me. At least you somehow get to see the 21st century kind of thinking. Someday you'll thank me for saving you from eternal dumbnation."-jasperjack


Last edited by jasperjack1968 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:31 am 
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miron_lang wrote:
studstar wrote:
hahaha, oks lang yan, we can all agree to disagree. napag-aralan ko kasi yan sa systems thinking na minsan yung mga cases na ganyan is a matter of loops, ang tanong yung gagawin mo ba eh reinforcing or balancing loop/reaction. sa kaso nga na ito, oo si trayvon 'mukhang' perp, oo si zimm eh within his rights na mag-alala given the previous events, ngayon mula nung sinabihan sya to stand down, para sa akin, yun na yung "balancing loop" na supposedly magbawas ng tensyon sa situation. yung pagsunod, one could even say stalking nya, ang "reinforcing loop" na nagtuloy sa tensyonado ng sitwasyon. sa pag solve ng mga problema, you have to balance the negative action, kumbaga eh huwag na dagdagan or i-reverse ng isang 'balancing' action. secondary na yung mga nangyari after, cause na yon ng reinforcing activity ni zimmerman na sinundan nya pa si trayvon.


maliwanag na maliwanag yan pre :D

Crystal na crystal.

engkaso dapat appropriate din ang kinaso ke Zimmerman. base dyan ano dapat kaso nya?

dapat yun ang kinaso at hindi murder.


kahit ano pa siguro ang ikaso ng prosecution, the ultimate argument is whether Zimmerman is justified in killing Trayvon in the act of self defense...and the defense had proven their case that it is.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:24 am 
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i dont intend to argue with the t.s this is what i think

if trayvon was white it would be just an ordinary murder case
if zimmerman was black it would be just an ordinary murder case
if trayvon was at zimmermans shoe he would do the same and shoot zimmerman pointblank


if zimmerman didnt rattled bcoz he got his *** whoop by a kid and his last line of defense is to pull a gun and shoot trayvon back up a little bit and just shoot trayvon on one of his leg and then called the cops trayvon would still be alive and it would only be a ordinary case..

but their will be a badblood between of those family...

on the issue of racism in america yes their is white vs black but not all, as their is discrimination on the philippines.

i dunno what white people in u.s hate about black people is it really the skin color? same as for the black to white or just the manner of how they act or how they think? but i think theirs is a gap between them i dunno what it is thats why they dont come along i dunno whats not :P

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:17 am 
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jasperjack1968 wrote:
studstar wrote:
hahaha, oks lang yan, we can all agree to disagree. napag-aralan ko kasi yan sa systems thinking na minsan yung mga cases na ganyan is a matter of loops, ang tanong yung gagawin mo ba eh reinforcing or balancing loop/reaction. sa kaso nga na ito, oo si trayvon 'mukhang' perp, oo si zimm eh within his rights na mag-alala given the previous events, ngayon mula nung sinabihan sya to stand down, para sa akin, yun na yung "balancing loop" na supposedly magbawas ng tensyon sa situation. yung pagsunod, one could even say stalking nya, ang "reinforcing loop" na nagtuloy sa tensyonado ng sitwasyon. sa pag solve ng mga problema, you have to balance the negative action, kumbaga eh huwag na dagdagan or i-reverse ng isang 'balancing' action. secondary na yung mga nangyari after, cause na yon ng reinforcing activity ni zimmerman na sinundan nya pa si trayvon.


Quote:
ngayon mula nung sinabihan sya to stand down, para sa akin, yun na yung "balancing loop" na supposedly magbawas ng tensyon sa situation.
The 911 dispatcher has to make a clear statement that it did not in any way put an individual in harms way when zimm was told " you don't have to follow him." but it's not legally binding. Although in the trial, there was no proof Zimm further followed Trayvon. " "he suddenly came out form the bush" as Zimm testified.

There's no law in US that says stalking is illegal although it can be viewed as a form or harassment. It you feel threatened or harassed because you are being followed, you call the authority. You don't confront the stalker and punch him in the face. You never know, that stalker could be armed and the stalker have every right to defend himself.

As an example,when a famous celebrity killed a paparazzi because he feels annoyed of them following him, do you think the celebrity is justified for self defense? or if the celebrity punched and choked the paparazzi and the paparazzi fought back, punched the celebrity in the neck and ruptured an artery and died, do you think the paparazzi won't be justified in self defense? The paparazzi will surely be justified in self defense. Whoever initiates the assault will likely be found at fault in most cases.


yup, i have no argument with the verdict, i am also saying that the law needs a rework, and that zimmerman aggravated the situation instead of helping it settle. that is the only point i think i want to get across. on a purely 'legal' standpoint mukhang tama naman lahat ng sinasabi mo. that is not what i am trying to communicate against. unfortunately whatever zimmerman say as a witness to the case, trayvon cannot argue, dude is dead na eh.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:23 am 
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studstar wrote:
jasperjack1968 wrote:
studstar wrote:
hahaha, oks lang yan, we can all agree to disagree. napag-aralan ko kasi yan sa systems thinking na minsan yung mga cases na ganyan is a matter of loops, ang tanong yung gagawin mo ba eh reinforcing or balancing loop/reaction. sa kaso nga na ito, oo si trayvon 'mukhang' perp, oo si zimm eh within his rights na mag-alala given the previous events, ngayon mula nung sinabihan sya to stand down, para sa akin, yun na yung "balancing loop" na supposedly magbawas ng tensyon sa situation. yung pagsunod, one could even say stalking nya, ang "reinforcing loop" na nagtuloy sa tensyonado ng sitwasyon. sa pag solve ng mga problema, you have to balance the negative action, kumbaga eh huwag na dagdagan or i-reverse ng isang 'balancing' action. secondary na yung mga nangyari after, cause na yon ng reinforcing activity ni zimmerman na sinundan nya pa si trayvon.


Quote:
ngayon mula nung sinabihan sya to stand down, para sa akin, yun na yung "balancing loop" na supposedly magbawas ng tensyon sa situation.
The 911 dispatcher has to make a clear statement that it did not in any way put an individual in harms way when zimm was told " you don't have to follow him." but it's not legally binding. Although in the trial, there was no proof Zimm further followed Trayvon. " "he suddenly came out form the bush" as Zimm testified.

There's no law in US that says stalking is illegal although it can be viewed as a form or harassment. It you feel threatened or harassed because you are being followed, you call the authority. You don't confront the stalker and punch him in the face. You never know, that stalker could be armed and the stalker have every right to defend himself.

As an example,when a famous celebrity killed a paparazzi because he feels annoyed of them following him, do you think the celebrity is justified for self defense? or if the celebrity punched and choked the paparazzi and the paparazzi fought back, punched the celebrity in the neck and ruptured an artery and died, do you think the paparazzi won't be justified in self defense? The paparazzi will surely be justified in self defense. Whoever initiates the assault will likely be found at fault in most cases.


yup, i have no argument with the verdict, i am also saying that the law needs a rework, and that zimmerman aggravated the situation instead of helping it settle. that is the only point i think i want to get across. on a purely 'legal' standpoint mukhang tama naman lahat ng sinasabi mo. that is not what i am trying to communicate against. unfortunately whatever zimmerman say as a witness to the case, trayvon cannot argue, dude is dead na eh.

Even if trayvon is alive today, he will lie in his favor if he has to. The prosecution snd the defense has to corraborate their story with the physical evidence....the very reason why Zimm was acquitted because his story fits the evidence. There was no proof trayvon had used any type legal means to protect or help himself at that moment. He csrried his own justice system like a thug.

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