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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:09 am 
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To become a world-class fighter, you have to be in world-class shape.
Train for a fight like your life is at stake.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:22 am 
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I agree! Joey I think all these hypes about becoming the next great champion is getting in the young filipino fighter's head not to mention Bernabe Concepcion when Roach made that comment saying "he already thinks he's Manny Pacquiao".


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:35 am 
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It's amazing these guys think they can become the next Pacquiao the easy way.
I've seen Pac train at WC ( before the first EM fight ).
TWO HOURS of hard training. That doesn't include the uphill running in the morning.
ALA gym might be a great gym, but the flat running track ( unless they are doing 3-minute sprints ) is close to being worthless.
AJ did not get beat by that punch. Concepcion GUTTED-out a win. And he was the one who was having weight-problems.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:40 am 
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JoeyInCali wrote:
It's amazing these guys think they can become the next Pacquiao the easy way.
I've seen Pac train at WC ( before the first EM fight ).
TWO HOURS of hard training. That doesn't include the uphill running in the morning.
ALA gym might be a great gym, but the flat running track ( unless they are doing 3-minute sprints ) is close to being worthless.
AJ did not get beat by that punch. Concepcion GUTTED-out a win. And he was the one who was having weight-problems.


You're implying that AJ should change his venue in training and most of all; change his trainers. :)

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He's (Pac) being insulted and accused of wrongdoing because he's so good. - Larry Merchant


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:41 am 
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I didn't see the fight, but according to news reports, he refused to get up...or didn't even try. Was it lack of heart? :(


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:46 am 
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Sad to say but it appears he did give up.
You just don't do that. That's called dogging. You do it once, you'll do it again.
Archie Moore was knocked down 5 times against Durelle. 3 times in one round and came back to win on a KO.
To be a world champion, you have to dig really deep. AJ did not dig enough imo.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:47 am 
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DaBizz wrote:
I didn't see the fight, but according to news reports, he refused to get up...or didn't even try. Was it lack of heart? :(


Yup, that was true the ref even stopped counting for a while and ask El torito to go to the neutral corner. Maybe it was lack
of heart and maybe because his age showed also. The body punching during the clinch affected him so much.

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He's (Pac) being insulted and accused of wrongdoing because he's so good. - Larry Merchant


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:54 am 
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rhad wrote:
DaBizz wrote:
I didn't see the fight, but according to news reports, he refused to get up...or didn't even try. Was it lack of heart? :(


Yup, that was true the ref even stopped counting for a while and ask El torito to go to the neutral corner. Maybe it was lack
of heart and maybe because his age showed also. The body punching during the clinch affected him so much.

Yeah, but you gut out those body shots.
I remember Ruelas fighting Azumah Nelson. He took a huge shot to the gut and he showed he was hurt. When he got back to the corner, guess what his manager trainer Joe Goosen told him.
Joe was yelling to him, " Gut that out motherf'r! Don't ever show him you were hurt down there." Remember when Chico was knocked down by Castillo in the first fight? Chico dropped his mouthpiece and when Joe put it back in his mouth, Joe told " You gotta go inside him now , f'r". Chico goes inside and stops Castillo.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:55 am 
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JoeyInCali wrote:
Sad to say but it appears he did give up.
You just don't do that. That's called dogging. You do it once, you'll do it again.
Archie Moore was knocked down 5 times against Durelle. 3 times in one round and came back to win on a KO.
To be a world champion, you have to dig really deep. AJ did not dig enough imo.



Those body shots did it. The effects caught him in the later rounds. He ran out of gas. The effects of body shots and head shot differs, where on headshots, you only need a few minutes or even seconds to recover. While body shots, may not affect you immediately, but will surely do as the fight goes on. The sad thing is, they (AJ and his team) could have prevented that by not allowing his opponent do that during clinch... they let it happen.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:58 am 
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DaBizz wrote:
I didn't see the fight, but according to news reports, he refused to get up...or didn't even try. Was it lack of heart? :(


I feel like he lost the mental battle. He was frustrated by Concepcion's strategy (clinching, hitting on the clinch, plus some sneaky rough housing).

Wait, let me cut and paste my post in another thread:
---

If I may add:

Concepcion's tactics of strategized clinching, and hitting during the clinch worked. It was clearer bothering AJ and was throwing off his rhythm. Obviously, it added one layer to his frustration.

There was a mental battle where AJ lost as well. Expounding on your item #2, Concepcion did seem like he was afraid in the first few rounds. I would catch Banal appreciating his handywork too much after landing solid blows, as if expecting Concepcion to be hurt and finish him off from there. He didn't press on like he should have. This would add another layer to his frustration. While there were few instances where Concepcion did get hurt, Banal wasn't able to capitalize because of the clinching once again. As the fight wore on, when Banal looked like he was starting to doubt if he could hurt Concepcion, the tides turned. Sensing weakness, Concepcion became the aggressor. Maybe something they weren't expecting to happen. He kept the pressure on, giving AJ no room. This is the first time I've seen Banal get bullied like that, and for the first time, his age showed


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:59 am 
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lapukman wrote:
JoeyInCali wrote:
Sad to say but it appears he did give up.
You just don't do that. That's called dogging. You do it once, you'll do it again.
Archie Moore was knocked down 5 times against Durelle. 3 times in one round and came back to win on a KO.
To be a world champion, you have to dig really deep. AJ did not dig enough imo.



Those body shots did it. The effects caught him in the later rounds. He ran out of gas. The effects of body shots and head shot differs, where on headshots, you only need a few minutes or even seconds to recover. While body shots, may not affect you immediately, but will surely do as the fight goes on. The sad thing is, they (AJ and his team) could have prevented that by not allowing his opponent do that during clinch... they let it happen.

Ali pissed blood after the Foreman fight but won.
Holyfield almost folded in half when Tyson hit him down there.
YOU HAVE TO GUT THOSE OUT.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:01 am 
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JoeyInCali wrote:
rhad wrote:
DaBizz wrote:
I didn't see the fight, but according to news reports, he refused to get up...or didn't even try. Was it lack of heart? :(


Yup, that was true the ref even stopped counting for a while and ask El torito to go to the neutral corner. Maybe it was lack
of heart and maybe because his age showed also. The body punching during the clinch affected him so much.

Yeah, but you gut out those body shots.
I remember Ruelas fighting Azumah Nelson. He took a huge shot to the gut and he showed he was hurt. When he got back to the corner, guess what his manager trainer Joe Goosen told him.
Joe was yelling to him, " Gut that out motherf'r! Don't ever show him you were hurt down there." Remember when Chico was knocked down by Castillo in the first fight? Chico dropped his mouthpiece and when Joe put it back in his mouth, Joe told " You gotta go inside him now , f'r". Chico goes inside and stops Castillo.



Well that's easier said than done. But it should have been easy doing it for this fight. Those happened during clinch and could have covered up better, got away from the clinch or even held that punching hand. But no, he was letting him do it. Maybe he thought it was just nothing, "kagat ng lamok", but now he should know.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:06 am 
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lapukman wrote:
JoeyInCali wrote:
Sad to say but it appears he did give up.
You just don't do that. That's called dogging. You do it once, you'll do it again.
Archie Moore was knocked down 5 times against Durelle. 3 times in one round and came back to win on a KO.
To be a world champion, you have to dig really deep. AJ did not dig enough imo.



Those body shots did it. The effects caught him in the later rounds. He ran out of gas. The effects of body shots and head shot differs, where on headshots, you only need a few minutes or even seconds to recover. While body shots, may not affect you immediately, but will surely do as the fight goes on. The sad thing is, they (AJ and his team) could have prevented that by not allowing his opponent do that during clinch... they let it happen.



they did not make adjustment on that, but there was one instance that when el torito is about to make clinch
AJ was quick to push him back. AJ was not able to do that consistenly. AJ and his team were so focused on how
to beat Concepcion and they forgot (almost) how to defend AJ from his opponent's offense.

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He's (Pac) being insulted and accused of wrongdoing because he's so good. - Larry Merchant


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:11 am 
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JoeyInCali wrote:
Ali pissed blood after the Foreman fight but won.
Holyfield almost folded in half when Tyson hit him down there.
YOU HAVE TO GUT THOSE OUT.


If I may be out of topic a bit, but I hear a lot of boxers piss blood (or have traces of blood in their urine) after a fight. I'm not sure if it's as uncommon as you think it is.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:15 am 
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rhad wrote:
lapukman wrote:
JoeyInCali wrote:
Sad to say but it appears he did give up.
You just don't do that. That's called dogging. You do it once, you'll do it again.
Archie Moore was knocked down 5 times against Durelle. 3 times in one round and came back to win on a KO.
To be a world champion, you have to dig really deep. AJ did not dig enough imo.



Those body shots did it. The effects caught him in the later rounds. He ran out of gas. The effects of body shots and head shot differs, where on headshots, you only need a few minutes or even seconds to recover. While body shots, may not affect you immediately, but will surely do as the fight goes on. The sad thing is, they (AJ and his team) could have prevented that by not allowing his opponent do that during clinch... they let it happen.



they did not make adjustment on that, but there was one instance that when el torito is about to make clinch
AJ was quick to push him back. AJ was not able to do that consistenly. AJ and his team were so focused on how
to beat Concepcion and they forgot (almost) how to defend AJ from his opponent's offense.



Yeah, this one of the lessons they should learn. I hope they do. They should not think that it is just a "kagat ng lamok".... it may have "dengue" with it


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