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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:27 pm 
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I do not remember the rules for what you can drink in between rounds. For some reason, I think that you can only give water. If that's the case, then the problem with the electrolytes MAY have been addressed before the fight. If this was one of the main reasons for AJ's downfall, I cannot blame AJ too much for his inability to get up.

-F


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:32 pm 
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if I may, ALA fighters are talented i will not question that but how about the coaches? are they giving the correct advices during the fight esp. in a championship bout? are they implementing the right fight plan? How about their strategy when Plan A is not working do they have a contingency plan? baka naman the corners rely solely on the boxer, remember even how good a fighter is they must be guided IMO.

Anyone can answer. thanks

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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:38 pm 
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withanf wrote:
I do not remember the rules for what you can drink in between rounds. For some reason, I think that you can only give water. If that's the case, then the problem with the electrolytes MAY have been addressed before the fight. If this was one of the main reasons for AJ's downfall, I cannot blame AJ too much for his inability to get up.

-F

Only water is allowed until they approve Gatorade. That was being explored by the Nevada commission afaik.
Problem with boxing trainers is a lot of them pass on so many traditions and beliefs.
When Evander Holyfield nearly died after a fight due to dehydration, the doctors were questioning then why boxers don't drink water in between rounds.
The popular belief is if you drink water in between rounds, body punches would hurt more.
Absolute fallacy! Do basketball and football players abstain from liquids during games?

And on AJ's supposedly overtraining, that's bs. When a fighter is overtrained he'd be slow from the 1st round. His reflexes would be shot.


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:39 pm 
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withanf wrote:
I do not remember the rules for what you can drink in between rounds. For some reason, I think that you can only give water. If that's the case, then the problem with the electrolytes MAY have been addressed before the fight. If this was one of the main reasons for AJ's downfall, I cannot blame AJ too much for his inability to get up.

-F

This reminds of Eribito Salavarria- Betulio Gonzalez back in 1971.


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:41 pm 
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Ramrod wrote:
“His body collapsed,” ALA said. “He allowed himself to be hit. AJ took a lot of punches to the liver. He received too many body punches.”

Should the referee, I inquired, have stepped in more to stop Concepcion from punching while they were locked together?

“I don’t want to make that as an alibi,” he said. “AJ just got hit and hit in the body. AJ should not have held Concepcion’s arm and allowed him to box him using his other hand.”


what puzzled me was that why AJ's corner never gave instructions to hold both concepcion's arms when clinching. or was there an instruction? it looked like there wasn't as AJ never made any attempt to held on to concepcion's right arm that was so free in pumelling his kidney section everytime they clinched. the clinching and the body punches during the clinch was the very big factor why AJ ran out of gas. his corner should have corrected that in the earlier rounds. obviously they never did.........


Good Observation! At the onset of the fight, Banal was already being walloped in the body at will by Rafa during clinches. How come there was no adjustment done? Eventually, it sealed and doomed his faith. :D


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:41 pm 
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JoeyInCali wrote:
withanf wrote:
I do not remember the rules for what you can drink in between rounds. For some reason, I think that you can only give water. If that's the case, then the problem with the electrolytes MAY have been addressed before the fight. If this was one of the main reasons for AJ's downfall, I cannot blame AJ too much for his inability to get up.

-F

Only water is allowed until they approve Gatorade. That was being explored by the Nevada commission afaik.
Problem with boxing trainers is a lot of them pass on so many traditions and beliefs.
When Evander Holyfield nearly died after a fight due to dehydration, the doctors were questioning then why boxers don't drink water in between rounds.
The popular belief is if you drink water in between rounds, body punches would hurt more.
Absolute fallacy! Do basketball and football players abstain from liquids during games?

And on AJ's supposedly overtraining, that's bs. When a fighter is overtrained he'd be slow from the 1st round. His reflexes would be shot.



for me, he was ill-prepared. More of undertrained....they never prepared for such technique.

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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:19 am
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JoeyInCali wrote:
withanf wrote:
I do not remember the rules for what you can drink in between rounds. For some reason, I think that you can only give water. If that's the case, then the problem with the electrolytes MAY have been addressed before the fight. If this was one of the main reasons for AJ's downfall, I cannot blame AJ too much for his inability to get up.

-F

Only water is allowed until they approve Gatorade. That was being explored by the Nevada commission afaik.
Problem with boxing trainers is a lot of them pass on so many traditions and beliefs.
When Evander Holyfield nearly died after a fight due to dehydration, the doctors were questioning then why boxers don't drink water in between rounds.
The popular belief is if you drink water in between rounds, body punches would hurt more.
Absolute fallacy! Do basketball and football players abstain from liquids during games?

And on AJ's supposedly overtraining, that's bs. When a fighter is overtrained he'd be slow from the 1st round. His reflexes would be shot.


Thanks for the info. on the drinking. Overtrained or undertrained, loss of electrolytes will be a detriment to performance if the the athlete is pushed. And, to be honest, overtraining will most likely show up after a few rounds because (some say) adrenaline may keep them sharp for a bit. Also, overtraining may have a greater affect on the ability to recover and sustain performance instead of affecting an athlete from the very beginning. Here's an important side-effect from over training, though AJ said that it was his body that gave out, not his mind. According to exercise psychologists, one of the biggest problems with overtraining is lack of desire to perform or continue. Like I said, this may not apply to him, but it is something to think about.

-F


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:52 pm 
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the_answer wrote:
Ramrod wrote:
the_answer wrote:
What puzzled me more was why the hell Raul Caiz didn't do anything to stop Concepcion from punching AJ while clinching.
after so many clinching and punching by concepcion....it became very obvious that the ref have plans of his own. so, AJ's corner should not wait for the ref to intervene anymore.....they should have corrected that themselves......


And now presenting the million-dollar question: Did AJ open up to his corner during the in-between round breaks that those sucker punches by Concepcion was bothering him?

The corner may have ignored those punches simply because they may have thought those were non-factors.
AJ's cornermen/trainers, being former boxers themselves, should know that punches to the body are always a factor to gas out an opponent. ignoring those punches in the kidney or liver section just because these cornermen/trainers thought those were non-factors is for me a very big letdown for them as trainers. AJ's cornermen/trainers should have acted immediately to correct it. they dont need to wait for AJ to complain. as cornermen/trainers they should be observant of what's going on inside the ring. a boxer only feels the punches....but he would never have time to think at that very moment whether the punches that hit him are legits or not.

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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:19 am
Posts: 1341
caloy76 wrote:
JoeyInCali wrote:
withanf wrote:
I do not remember the rules for what you can drink in between rounds. For some reason, I think that you can only give water. If that's the case, then the problem with the electrolytes MAY have been addressed before the fight. If this was one of the main reasons for AJ's downfall, I cannot blame AJ too much for his inability to get up.

-F

Only water is allowed until they approve Gatorade. That was being explored by the Nevada commission afaik.
Problem with boxing trainers is a lot of them pass on so many traditions and beliefs.
When Evander Holyfield nearly died after a fight due to dehydration, the doctors were questioning then why boxers don't drink water in between rounds.
The popular belief is if you drink water in between rounds, body punches would hurt more.
Absolute fallacy! Do basketball and football players abstain from liquids during games?

And on AJ's supposedly overtraining, that's bs. When a fighter is overtrained he'd be slow from the 1st round. His reflexes would be shot.



for me, he was ill-prepared. More of undertrained....they never prepared for such technique.


The question is whether this was a new tactic of Concepcion. If this wasn't something new, then it may not have been due to being ill-prepared because they watched videos of Concepcion. If you're right then I feel pretty bad because they didn't work on a plan B or something.

F


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:11 pm
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superpatatas wrote:
dear MODS,

the problem is only few here are actually boxing fans, most people here are Pacfans that's why when you ask for constructive criticism, few could only do that because they are unfair to other boxers besides their idol. When Pac is the one who's in trouble they are quick to make excuses like on his 2nd fight w/ Marquez, clearly he was owned in that fight but when it comes to other Philippine boxers most people here judge them easily, calling them names and saying the most harmful things they can imagine. see how few people can only reply here? where are those haters now?

Here are the reasons I think why AJ lost that fight.

1. He failed to finish Concepcion when he got him hurt and he paid for that with a lot of body punches w/ clinging.

2. He didn't do anything with those body punches of Concepcion that somehow looked illegal because Concepcion is holding him while he's doing that. I think that greatly contributed to his downfall.

3. I think his will was broken when he couldn't finish Concepcion, while his opponent on the other hand continues to keep coming at him.

4. I think he was surprised at how tough Concepcion is, he was never pressured that way before and i think he succumbed to it.

5. So all in all the reason I think why AJ didn't stand up when he got knocked down is because of the things I mentioned. I think AJ's conditioning is good btw.


i agree to your observations bro

he failed to finish concepcion in the first few rounds, concepcion was clearly hurt when he clinched even if aj was still a mile away (yet somebody even said he knew aj would lose after the 1st round)

concepcion's style bothered aj, headbutt here, clinching there, the el torrito style head first (like david diaz), plus the fact that he is one tough opponent. aj imo was never pressured that way before.

on aj's way to the dugout, he was still dizzy feeling the sting of concepcion's bombs. he was really that hurt.

no doubt aj, the cornermen/trainers and even the mgt need to analyze and correct what has been wrong in that fight and in the other fights as well. the opinions here will, in a way or another help them arrive to a conclusion. problem is, there are just some people here that hate ala that much, even way before aj's loss.

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If I had to do it over again, I would've just let people talk and say what they had to say, and as time goes on, they would've seen what was what.


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:04 pm 
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Ramrod wrote:

AJ's cornermen/trainers, being former boxers themselves, should know that punches to the body are always a factor to gas out an opponent. ignoring those punches in the kidney or liver section just because these cornermen/trainers thought those were non-factors is for me a very big letdown for them as trainers. AJ's cornermen/trainers should have acted immediately to correct it. they dont need to wait for AJ to complain. as cornermen/trainers they should be observant of what's going on inside the ring. a boxer only feels the punches....but he would never have time to think at that very moment whether the punches that hit him are legits or not.


There should be two-way communication. A team effort.

But if the corner fails to notice what's happening, the boxer should take matters in his hands. After all, he's the one fighting in the ring, the one taking those punches. It's a sign of experience, which unfortunately AJ did not have that time.

So let's not put the entire blame on AJ's corner; They both failed.

_________________
"What's the difference between chess and boxing? In chess, nobody is an expert, but everybody plays. In boxing everybody is an expert, but nobody fights." - Dr. Vitali Vladimirovich Klitschko


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:18 pm 
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I am believing if ALA hire more trainers to his boxing gym, he is produce many world champions. ALA is no problem get the trainers because he is money a lot. He is also dedication to the sport of boxing. This is not the end for ALA stable. It is only a lessons to making champions of many someday. I still believe in ALA stable. But improvements are necessary. Only in improvements of his trainers is the only hope. I am saw pictures of their nice gym. Nice and expensive things in the gym. Only more training styles is very important.


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:21 pm 
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hire dirty/"magulang" sparmates.


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:22 pm 
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praktikal wrote:
hire dirty/"magulang" sparmates.


You really live up to your name. Praktikal nga. :)

_________________
"What's the difference between chess and boxing? In chess, nobody is an expert, but everybody plays. In boxing everybody is an expert, but nobody fights." - Dr. Vitali Vladimirovich Klitschko


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 Post subject: Re: ALA: NO EXCUSES
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:22 pm 
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Location: CEBU
the_answer wrote:
grayfist wrote:

But one must look at the statement of ALA himself as thought provoking when he said, "Concepcion wanted it more," because it can only mean that Banal wanted it less.

The question is then raised, is Tony himself taking a closer look at Banal's "desire"? Is that what is meant by that statment, given the fact that Tony himself is circumspect about his take on why Banal refused to beat the count, as he merely said, "I do not know what was on his mind"?

If that is so, then there's a bigger problem than just the apparent physical issues. Lack of desire is much more difficult to cure than stamina issues, I think.

Tony is an experienced boxingman; 20 years in the sport. On top of that, he is like a father to Banal. He is in the best position to do something about it. But before he can administer the cure, he has to know the ailment. His statements above tell me that he thinks he does, and I believe he's right.


Lack of desire? Come on. His body broke down. It gave up on him. Period.

He even collapsed on the way to the dressing room according to Ed Picson.


Agree! The desire is there but the flesh just could not deliver. IMO of the fight, conditioning
plays the most signficant factor in AJ's loss if the loss in potassium issue is true. If he is
a well conditioned fighter, he could have lost or knocked out of the fight but not to the
extent of having lost his senses and strength after the fight.

I think ALA should concentrate on this aspect of conditioning.

One this is sure here ALA staff are not that dumb not to learn from these experiences.
They will bounce back.


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