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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:28 pm 
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MIC TYSON wrote:
BEERHAUZ wrote:
Uhmmm...Okey lang sana sumuko na lang, kaso umiyak pa... tsk tsk tsk...The mark of a future world champ :wink:



he's 19, how old are you? and what do you call those players who cry during the olympics after they lose? crybabies? it's more of pride thing and a sign of wanting to win if they could just given more or have something more left in them. obviously, Banal wanted to give more kung kaya nya pa, but he knew that his body could not take more punishment. willing ang puso, kaso bumigay na ang katawan.

This is the point of contention. Kaya pa ba niya? It's very clear that he waited for the count to finish before he stood up. You are in the fight of your life. You have waited long and prepared so hard for this opportunity. You are in front of millions of Filipinos rooting for you to win. Kaya pa ba niya?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:31 pm 
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englishbritish wrote:
titusja wrote:
Quote:
tumakbo ka ng non-stop for at least 8 minutes at pagkatapos niyan magpasuntok ka sa tagiliran mo ng libre at yung malalakas na suntok hindi yung pigil for at least 10-15 seconds. tingnan ko lang makakatayo ka pa.
si johny gonzalez nga di nakatayo kaagad sa liver shot ni penalosa eh.

trans:
jog 8 mins, then after that let your body be punched for at least 10-15 seconds without protecting it with your arms.


Sorry to disagree bro. You're comparing apples and oranges. Obviously, for someone untrained, it will be tough just to keep punching even for only a minute. But AJ is a trained professional. That's the whole point. He's trained to go through adversary. And fight for 12 rounds if necessary.

I keep reading about liver shot but it wasn't a liver shot that put him down. It was a series of head shots. But that's just being picky. The point is, it was clear that he still has the ability to stand and fight physically if he wanted to. Why do I say that? Watch the closing seconds again - it was clear that he knew the count and was just waiting for the ref to complete it. At count 10, he immediately stood up. Considering that he is fighting in his own backyard, I can't imagine him going down like that. At least Boom Boom tried all he could to fight and really, that all we can ask from our gallant boxers.

Anyhow, AJ is young. I'm sure he will be back. I just hope his heart will show up next time. Really, it not just talent (think PBF) that makes boxing the greatest sport to watch, it's the only sport where the power of the fighting heart comes in full bloom and in full display (think Corrales).

Cheers,
TJ


you did not get what i'm trying to say, i have directed this to the NON-boxers here who are just talking and think they could still get up from the exhaustion and the pounding of the body for 10 rounds. And since we are talking about NON-boxers here, i tried to give them the chance that if any of us here were to become professional boxers then that would be a 4 rounder so that's 12minutes, minus 4 minutes rest for each round.So that's 8minutes of exhaustion. I consider the 4th round having a rest because that's where you are not only physically rested but also mentally rested because the fight is over. Then i gave at least 10-15seconds bodypunching even minimal to what they get to receive in 12 minutes.
What i mean is these guys think it's easy, they haven't thought of the fact that he is only 19 years old. A 19 yr old body is still a 19yr old body no matter how much training he has received. Even if you are a trained boxer, it doesn't mean you don't tire or suffer pain for receiving punches. He could have fought on, but he doesn't want to take the punishment anymore. That would mean another 6 minutes of more punishment. Yes he could have won on points, but he would have spent the last 2 rounds survival mode. If he had done that, many would again criticize him for just surviving and backpedalling the last 2 rounds, what a champion. But for me, that's not his style. He would do the usual thing he did in the previous round, toe to toe, even though his jabs are not effective anymore. Then concepcion will be able to gore his way in and clinch and free cheapshots again. That's another round or two of pain for him.
As i've said it's his body, it's his life he's risking, easy for others who just watch to want him to stand up.
Funny of you to say a Pinoy boxer has no heart in Banal, yet you cited an example for another nationality for having heart. When in fact you don't have to look elsewhere when talking about the best example of heart, that is Filipino Manny Pacquiao. All cut and bloodied, couldn't see properly anymore but he went the whole 12 rounds fighting.
You looked down on a fellow Pinoy, and praised a non-pinoy.


when Manny got floored by TorreCampo and that 3k Battery guy, did Manny got up? wala bang puso si Manny nun? gumising nga kayo.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:37 pm 
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gudz511 wrote:
MIC TYSON wrote:
BEERHAUZ wrote:
Uhmmm...Okey lang sana sumuko na lang, kaso umiyak pa... tsk tsk tsk...The mark of a future world champ :wink:



he's 19, how old are you? and what do you call those players who cry during the olympics after they lose? crybabies? it's more of pride thing and a sign of wanting to win if they could just given more or have something more left in them. obviously, Banal wanted to give more kung kaya nya pa, but he knew that his body could not take more punishment. willing ang puso, kaso bumigay na ang katawan.

This is the point of contention. Kaya pa ba niya? It's very clear that he waited for the count to finish before he stood up. You are in the fight of your life. You have waited long and prepared so hard for this opportunity. You are in front of millions of Filipinos rooting for you to win. Kaya pa ba niya?


putik kaya ko pang tumayo, pagod na pagod nga lang katawan ko.masakit na masakit sa mga suntok niya sa tagiliran. kailangan kong tumayo para sa mga kababayan ko,alam kong nakakahiya to homecourt pa naman. pero ang sakit2 na, pag tumayo pa ako mas lalo lng akong masasaktan. di ko na kaya tumanggap pa ng dagdag na sakit sa katawan.sana patawarin nila ako.
Good luck and God Bless Banal. Bawi ka next time.

And as i've said, it's his life on the line,it's his body. not yours. So to anybody who thinks it easy getting up from any kind of punishment a boxer receives, be a boxer yourself. And we will let you taste what you do to these poor boxers. All these kind of sadist do is add insult to injury!
trans:
don't you think he didn't think of all those things within the 10 second count?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Ramrod wrote:
BEERHAUZ wrote:
Uhmmm...Okey lang sana sumuko na lang, kaso umiyak pa... tsk tsk tsk...The mark of a future world champ :wink:
you want banal to laugh out loud after giving up the fight...??? that would be a more disgusting scene to watch.... :(



bangag siguro itong si beerhauz, puro kasi beerhauz. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:42 pm 
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MIC TYSON wrote:
when Manny got floored by TorreCampo and that 3k Battery guy, did Manny got up? wala bang puso si Manny nun? gumising nga kayo.


Pre', those who are saying Banal doesn't have heart i'm sure they will counter that with "that was a punch you aren't going to get up to." They don't get that even though Banal did not immediately go down to one of those punches, it is the accumulation of punches and the pain you'll feel later on that you won't be able to continue or get up.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:45 pm 
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MIC TYSON wrote:
Ramrod wrote:
BEERHAUZ wrote:
Uhmmm...Okey lang sana sumuko na lang, kaso umiyak pa... tsk tsk tsk...The mark of a future world champ :wink:
you want banal to laugh out loud after giving up the fight...??? that would be a more disgusting scene to watch.... :(



bangag siguro itong si beerhauz, puro kasi beerhauz. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Strip clubs here in Amsterdam are the best in the world 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:47 pm 
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gudz511 wrote:
MIC TYSON wrote:
BEERHAUZ wrote:
Uhmmm...Okey lang sana sumuko na lang, kaso umiyak pa... tsk tsk tsk...The mark of a future world champ :wink:



he's 19, how old are you? and what do you call those players who cry during the olympics after they lose? crybabies? it's more of pride thing and a sign of wanting to win if they could just given more or have something more left in them. obviously, Banal wanted to give more kung kaya nya pa, but he knew that his body could not take more punishment. willing ang puso, kaso bumigay na ang katawan.

This is the point of contention. Kaya pa ba niya? It's very clear that he waited for the count to finish before he stood up. You are in the fight of your life. You have waited long and prepared so hard for this opportunity. You are in front of millions of Filipinos rooting for you to win. Kaya pa ba niya?



pre, that is no longer an enigma. kita mo ng nanlalambot na at lawit na ang dila, tatanungin mo kung kaya pa. watch the fight again from round 8 to the last round. tignan mong maigi si AJ. palibhasa nakatayo si AJ after the count, you would assume that he can still go on. tignan mo mukha ni AJ nung binibilangan, you could see he was catching his breath as quickly as possible. bulag lang or duling ang di nakakita nun.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:52 pm 
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englishbritish wrote:
MIC TYSON wrote:
when Manny got floored by TorreCampo and that 3k Battery guy, did Manny got up? wala bang puso si Manny nun? gumising nga kayo.


Pre', those who are saying Banal doesn't have heart i'm sure they will counter that with "that was a punch you aren't going to get up to." They don't get that even though Banal did not immediately go down to one of those punches, it is the accumulation of punches and the pain you'll feel later on that you won't be able to continue or get up.



no pre, di naman na-lights out si Manny eh. those were also bodyshots. he just refused to get up. so walang puso si Manny !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:53 pm 
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MIC TYSON wrote:
gudz511 wrote:


This is the point of contention. Kaya pa ba niya? It's very clear that he waited for the count to finish before he stood up. You are in the fight of your life. You have waited long and prepared so hard for this opportunity. You are in front of millions of Filipinos rooting for you to win. Kaya pa ba niya?



pre, that is no longer an enigma. kita mo ng nanlalambot na at lawit na ang dila, tatanungin mo kung kaya pa. watch the fight again from round 8 to the last round. tignan mong maigi si AJ. palibhasa nakatayo si AJ after the count, you would assume that he can still go on. tignan mo mukha ni AJ nung binibilangan, you could see he was catching his breath as quickly as possible. bulag lang or duling ang di nakakita nun.


I am reserving judgement on Banal's heart until the issue on "Potassium and Diuretics" are resolved. See the other thread for details.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:04 pm 
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MIC TYSON wrote:
englishbritish wrote:
MIC TYSON wrote:
when Manny got floored by TorreCampo and that 3k Battery guy, did Manny got up? wala bang puso si Manny nun? gumising nga kayo.


Pre', those who are saying Banal doesn't have heart i'm sure they will counter that with "that was a punch you aren't going to get up to." They don't get that even though Banal did not immediately go down to one of those punches, it is the accumulation of punches and the pain you'll feel later on that you won't be able to continue or get up.



no pre, di naman na-lights out si Manny eh. those were also bodyshots. he just refused to get up. so walang puso si Manny !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


WALANG HIYA YAN! WALA KANG PUSO MANNY! HINDI KA KARAPAT-DAPAT MAGING CHAMPION!

trans:
no shame that! no you heart manny! not you worthy become champion!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:10 pm 
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gudz511 wrote:
MIC TYSON wrote:
gudz511 wrote:


This is the point of contention. Kaya pa ba niya? It's very clear that he waited for the count to finish before he stood up. You are in the fight of your life. You have waited long and prepared so hard for this opportunity. You are in front of millions of Filipinos rooting for you to win. Kaya pa ba niya?



pre, that is no longer an enigma. kita mo ng nanlalambot na at lawit na ang dila, tatanungin mo kung kaya pa. watch the fight again from round 8 to the last round. tignan mong maigi si AJ. palibhasa nakatayo si AJ after the count, you would assume that he can still go on. tignan mo mukha ni AJ nung binibilangan, you could see he was catching his breath as quickly as possible. bulag lang or duling ang di nakakita nun.


I am reserving judgement on Banal's heart until the issue on "Potassium and Diuretics" are resolved. See the other thread for details.



potassium and diuretics is among factors. but one must also consider internal bleeding, trauma , organ inflammation and cramps and ruptures and also physical fatigue. things that most less boxing-knowledgeable audience don't know about and dismiss as a real issue. that's the reason why boxers are mandated to go to the hospital right after each bout to check for other injuries. aside from brain scans. general checkup ang ginagawa.

*regarding extreme fatigue, it's really a biatch. daig mo pa ang lasing na naglalakad, I mean you can collapse anytime and anywhere. blackout ika nga. I hope this thread will become instrumental in educating some of our less knowledgeable members here in Pacland. para di magmukhang ignoramus next time.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:32 pm 
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There can be a lot of possible answers why AJ did not stand up before he was counted out. Low potassium, body shots, gassed out, overtraining, lack of heart... Be my guest.

But let us not forget that the end result was due to the vicious body blows to the left side of AJ's body by El Torito. Ang tanong - why did EJ not cover up during the clinches? He is a professional, unbeaten, gunning for a world title in the near future, pero he didn't know how to sufficiently cover up his side? Di ba itinuro sa training yun? If you look more closely during the fight, during the clinches AJ repeatedly tied up the left arm of El Torito. But he failed, or didn't know how, to tie up El Torito's right. Ilang beses ba siya sinuntok nang sinuntok sa tagiliran? Repeatedly! And yet he just allowed it by failing to tie up properly. Sinubukan lang niyang umiwas, pero abot pa rin siya. That was ridiculous! He knew that El Torito was slowly sapping out his energy with those vicious body blows pero to a certain extent hinayaan lang ni AJ.

AJ Banal didn't know how to clinch properly. He din't know how to defend himself at all times - including during clinches. This lack of knowing is attributable to his lack of skills, and sub-par training. Skills and training do not only focus on offense - ok si AJ dun. Kelangan may depensa. Well, AJ's defense was ok too, except during the clinches.

Side note: Wag na ituro yung referee for failing to stop the body shots during clinches. A fighter is expected to "defend himself AT ALL TIMES".

AJ Banal failed to do that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Lahat naman ng boxers, maski yung mga ordinaryong tao, kapag tinamaan at napuruhan nagkaka-injury - be it inflammation, trauma, hemorrhage, etc.

But boxers are trained to defend themselves AT ALL TIMES. They are trained to watch out for those legal blows, and even for the illegal blows.

Yung ibang mga suntok ni El Torito AJ Banal was able to block. Those body shots during the clinches which, ordinarily, were easier to block hindi nadepensahan ni AJ.

BAKIT?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:51 pm 
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marktj wrote:
There can be a lot of possible answers why AJ did not stand up before he was counted out. Low potassium, body shots, gassed out, overtraining, lack of heart... Be my guest.

But let us not forget that the end result was due to the vicious body blows to the left side of AJ's body by El Torito. Ang tanong - why did EJ not cover up during the clinches? He is a professional, unbeaten, gunning for a world title in the near future, pero he didn't know how to sufficiently cover up his side? Di ba itinuro sa training yun? If you look more closely during the fight, during the clinches AJ repeatedly tied up the left arm of El Torito. But he failed, or didn't know how, to tie up El Torito's right. Ilang beses ba siya sinuntok nang sinuntok sa tagiliran? Repeatedly! And yet he just allowed it by failing to tie up properly. Sinubukan lang niyang umiwas, pero abot pa rin siya. That was ridiculous! He knew that El Torito was slowly sapping out his energy with those vicious body blows pero to a certain extent hinayaan lang ni AJ.

AJ Banal didn't know how to clinch properly. He din't know how to defend himself at all times - including during clinches. This lack of knowing is attributable to his lack of skills, and sub-par training. Skills and training do not only focus on offense - ok si AJ dun. Kelangan may depensa. Well, AJ's defense was ok too, except during the clinches.

Side note: Wag na ituro yung referee for failing to stop the body shots during clinches. A fighter is expected to "defend himself AT ALL TIMES".

AJ Banal failed to do that.


your assessment is correct bro. I believe this burden lands on the ALA trainers. the ref is only a small part of the fault. Aj should have clinched/held Concepcion's arms as well, the way Manny does now in his fights. AJ and his trainers never expected Concepcion to do such tactic (eventhough it was deemed illegal). I would utilize it also if I was going to fight AJ. it was a tactical battle for Concepcion. this shows that the ALA trainers and cornermen are not yet the so-called world-class type in status. the lack of advise and action tells it all. they failed to give AJ the right tactics to employ.

I'm not bashing ALA, but what I'm saying is that they already had practically used everything what they needed and knew to train AJ. it's time for AJ to learn new tricks that ALA failed to give him. 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:07 pm 
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MIC TYSON wrote:
marktj wrote:
There can be a lot of possible answers why AJ did not stand up before he was counted out. Low potassium, body shots, gassed out, overtraining, lack of heart... Be my guest.

But let us not forget that the end result was due to the vicious body blows to the left side of AJ's body by El Torito. Ang tanong - why did EJ not cover up during the clinches? He is a professional, unbeaten, gunning for a world title in the near future, pero he didn't know how to sufficiently cover up his side? Di ba itinuro sa training yun? If you look more closely during the fight, during the clinches AJ repeatedly tied up the left arm of El Torito. But he failed, or didn't know how, to tie up El Torito's right. Ilang beses ba siya sinuntok nang sinuntok sa tagiliran? Repeatedly! And yet he just allowed it by failing to tie up properly. Sinubukan lang niyang umiwas, pero abot pa rin siya. That was ridiculous! He knew that El Torito was slowly sapping out his energy with those vicious body blows pero to a certain extent hinayaan lang ni AJ.

AJ Banal didn't know how to clinch properly. He din't know how to defend himself at all times - including during clinches. This lack of knowing is attributable to his lack of skills, and sub-par training. Skills and training do not only focus on offense - ok si AJ dun. Kelangan may depensa. Well, AJ's defense was ok too, except during the clinches.

Side note: Wag na ituro yung referee for failing to stop the body shots during clinches. A fighter is expected to "defend himself AT ALL TIMES".

AJ Banal failed to do that.


your assessment is correct bro. I believe this burden lands on the ALA trainers. the ref is only a small part of the fault. Aj should have clinched/held Concepcion's arms as well, the way Manny does now in his fights. AJ and his trainers never expected Concepcion to do such tactic (eventhough it was deemed illegal). I would utilize it also if I was going to fight AJ. it was a tactical battle for Concepcion. this shows that the ALA trainers and cornermen are not yet the so-called world-class type in status. the lack of advise and action tells it all. they failed to give AJ the right tactics to employ.

I'm not bashing ALA, but what I'm saying is that they already had practically used everything what they needed and knew to train AJ. it's time for AJ to learn new tricks that ALA failed to give him. 8)


Sayang kse si AJ Banal bro. Pati na rin sila Boom-Boom at Z Gorrez. At yung iba pa nilang contemporaries. These are world class fighters who all have a bright future ahead of them. Kelangan lang nila ng world class training din, at hindi lang world class facilities which the ALA Gym already has. Sayang ang oras, ang youthfulness nila. Given the right training and exposure the Philippines will be a real force to reckon with pagdating sa boxing. Malapit na retirement ni Pacman. Those heirs-apparent have fallen short when faced by top contenders.

This problem made itself obvious during the Banal-Concepcion fight. Di nakapag-react si AJ Banal, and his corner failed to wake him up and get him out of the spell. Imagine, paulit-ulit yung suntok sa tagiliran. How ridiculous can that be?


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