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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:14 am 
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robzuki wrote:
jmix wrote:
robzuki wrote:
The potassium level issue is one thing. Hypokalemia (decrease in blood potassium levels) leads to gradual weakening of muscles which further causes weakness and fatigue. It is also detrimental if detected in lower amounts as it would sacrificed the heart and the intestinal tract having arrythmias and severe constipation and bowel distention (respectively). In short, having severe hypokalemia is a life-threatening condition. Banal must have been negelcted by his medical personnel during his training thus resulted to his frustrating defeat.

I was surprised when Aldeguer remarked about maintaining Banal's heart rate to an average of 34-38 beats/minute!o That is really abnormal! It is true that in most of the athletes their heart rates are below the usual normal heart rate of 60-100 beats per minute, but with 34 beats per minute?! nah, that would really cause much exhaustion to Banal in the long run. IMHO, this is probably the major reason why Banal didnt last for 12 rounds during the fight! Cmon Mr. Aldeguer you dont want to lose your precious fighters do you with that type of conditioning? Luckily for Banal, he didnt experienced arrythmia after the fight coz otherwise it would be the start of the end of his career as a professional fighter under ALA.



Thanks for that in-depth medical analysis. However, are those things you mentioned be a product of gradual process due to any particular ailment? Does potassium level drop at one instant, like in the case of AJ, at fight night? The symptoms you mentioned, can they not be detected earlier like severe constipation or bowel detention. Now you mentioned heart rate. Don't you think the ALA Camp with their physicians know about all these, as according to ALA, they've been monitoring it prior to fight night. It appears to me this is the heart rate they are accustomed to and basis of standard for all there boxers. This is getting very interesting!!!!


Potassium level cannot drop at an instant, it is usually a gradual process. Take for instance, perspiration, electrolytes such as potassium and sodium along with chlorides are gradually excreted through our body in this process, and are constantly replenished by our body. In AJ's, the complications of having hypokalemia is already imminent with dehydration experienced accompanied by muscle fatigue brought by serious, rigid training likewise the main fight.

I think the medical personnels around AJ have been on constant monitor with regards to the boxer's health status however you cannot expect a 100% assurance that AJ is ready to take on the grueling 12 rounds when in fact potassium levels can can greatly influenced both your cardiac health and muscular activity. Having a low potassium level in the blood had seriously exhausted AJ's arsenal and thats what they have observed/seen during the fight. They havent addressed the situation of having AJ subject to serum electrolyte determination prior to the fight. Thats part of the conditioning I supposed better than rehydrating at instant wherein you never know what type of electrolyte is gradually lost--for in Banal's case--potassium.


I think your the right person to be their conditioning coach. Seriously!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:14 am 
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Whirlwind wrote:
To ALA gym boxer's eat 2 banana's before your fight. It will give your more extra strength than any other food you will take before the fight. I know because I did weight lifting. After I eat 2 or 3 banana's and I can exercise 1-2 hours without feeling tired. The Banana also have a lot of health benefits especially those who want to lower the high blood pressure and many more. Its really worked on me! Here's the link. http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa/food ... _cure.html

BANANA. "Containing three natural sugars - sucrose, fructose and glucose - combined with fiber, a banana gives an instant, sustained and substantial boost of energy.

Research has proved that just two bananas provide enough energy for a strenuous 90-minute workout. No wonder the banana is the number one fruit with the world's leading athletes. But energy isn't the only way a banana can help us keep fit. It can also help overcome or prevent a substantial number of illnesses and conditions making it a must to add to your daily diet."


Banana is rich in potassium, containing about 10 mEq of potassium. It has been proven also in researches that potassium significantly lowers blood pressure if taken in recommended amounts. Potassium has many benefits be it on maintaining a normal blood pressure, rehydration, good bowel movement, and in maintaining good muscular activity. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:19 am 
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I heard of some fighters rehydrating intravenously (dextrose) after the official weigh-in.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:21 am 
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Whirlwind wrote:
robzuki wrote:

Potassium level cannot drop at an instant, it is usually a gradual process. Take for instance, perspiration, electrolytes such as potassium and sodium along with chlorides are gradually excreted through our body in this process, and are constantly replenished by our body. In AJ's, the complications of having hypokalemia is already imminent with dehydration experienced accompanied by muscle fatigue brought by serious, rigid training likewise the main fight.

I think the medical personnels around AJ have been on constant monitor with regards to the boxer's health status however you cannot expect a 100% assurance that AJ is ready to take on the grueling 12 rounds when in fact potassium levels can can greatly influenced both your cardiac health and muscular activity. Having a low potassium level in the blood had seriously exhausted AJ's arsenal and thats what they have observed/seen during the fight. They havent addressed the situation of having AJ subject to serum electrolyte determination prior to the fight. Thats part of the conditioning I supposed better than rehydrating at instant wherein you never know what type of electrolyte is gradually lost--for in Banal's case--potassium.


I think your the right person to be their conditioning coach. Seriously!


Im just providing my inputs bro since its a very interesting matter to be discussed with regards to conditioning. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:21 am 
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monkeybiz wrote:
potasium level or any other thing should not be an issue at all he should have been prepared mentally and physically if not 100%.
He lost no excuse about it
better luck next time.
case close



I hope you read the initial post. I did mention that AJ lost clearly and in an unquestionable manner. We are not making excuses rather try to dissect AJ's downfall that night. Who knows some boxers, trainers, or the ALA camp themselves might get something out of these.

Read between the lines, bro.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:25 am 
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DaBizz wrote:
I heard of some fighters rehydrating intravenously (dextrose) after the official weigh-in.


Yes sir. They have done it to restore the lost electrolytes (sodium, potassium, chlorides, bicarbonates) as well as providing sugars for energy. I think its a common procedure when they need an instant recovery from dehydration.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:33 am 
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If anything, our boxing (sports) fans are getting smarter because of the boxing surge 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:37 am 
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DaBizz wrote:
I heard of some fighters rehydrating intravenously (dextrose) after the official weigh-in.



Yes, Thats what i also do after a hard and long bicycle ride and also when i have a bad hangover and have to work :lol: I would like to correct the statement of one of the poster saying that the body replenish itself with electrolytes ... Thats not true [you have to physically replace it]. Once you're dehydrated and lose a signifanct amount of electrolytes it will be as if somebody switch-off the power from your body, thats the term we cyclists use as "hitting the wall".


Segura, Cotto and Banal. All lost at the same fashion [running out of gas] at the same night [day sa Pinas] and WAS undefeated.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:55 am 
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Maybe he over-exerted himself.....


I do not think he has such level of K when the match started.

WE lose electrolytes if we sweat too much and used too much power.

He needs to pace himself properly next time.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:35 am 
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Whirlwind wrote:
To ALA gym boxer's eat 2 banana's before your fight. It will give your more extra strength than any other food you will take before the fight. I know because I did weight lifting. After I eat 2 or 3 banana's and I can exercise 1-2 hours without feeling tired. The Banana also have a lot of health benefits especially those who want to lower the high blood pressure and many more. Its really worked on me! Here's the link. http://www.geocities.com/mutmainaa/food ... _cure.html

BANANA. "Containing three natural sugars - sucrose, fructose and glucose - combined with fiber, a banana gives an instant, sustained and substantial boost of energy.

Research has proved that just two bananas provide enough energy for a strenuous 90-minute workout. No wonder the banana is the number one fruit with the world's leading athletes. But energy isn't the only way a banana can help us keep fit. It can also help overcome or prevent a substantial number of illnesses and conditions making it a must to add to your daily diet."

Watermelon too is high in potassium, higher than banana. Experiement and combine the two. Or Banana before working out and watermelon (Pakwan) after, to replace the electrolytes. I jogged average of 1 hour nonstop under the sun wearing windbreaker suit. Time to change AJ's moniker to AJ "Pakwan" Banal, sounds like Pacman. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:37 am 
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AJ is taking diuretics to make his weight. This is nothing new. This is a dirty secret in Philippine boxing. The situation with AJ was desperate. Banal actually has weight problems making the 115 lb. limit. No wonder he got exhausted and dehydrated easily. AJ needs to fight in the bantamweight division. He probably will do better in that division. This is better than taking diuretics. He could die of irregular heart rhythm in the ring or out of the ring if he continues doing it. Try researching hypokalemia in the internet. It was the diuretics that made it. The loss was medication induced. I bet it was Lasix 40 mg. he was taking before the weigh in. It would have worked if that fight was short. A longer fight would be too much. He needed big time potassium tablets. Fruits and vegetable might not work.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:47 am 
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junpals1 wrote:
AJ is taking diuretics to make his weight. This is nothing new. This is a dirty secret in Philippine boxing. The situation with AJ was desperate. Banal actually has weight problems making the 115 lb. limit. No wonder he got exhausted and dehydrated easily. AJ needs to fight in the bantamweight division. He probably will do better in that division. This is better than taking diuretics. He could die of irregular heart rhythm in the ring or out of the ring if he continues doing it. Try researching hypokalemia in the internet. It was the diuretics that made it. The loss was medication induced. I bet it was Lasix 40 mg. he was taking before the weigh in. It would have worked if that fight was short. A longer fight would be too much. He needed big time potassium tablets. Fruits and vegetable might not work.

If this is true, it is not good. If he ever used one, he probably used a potassium-wasting diuretic. If he/they plan to do it again, try to drink tea instead because it is also a diuretic. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:56 am 
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i was shocked when ronnie n. said "banals blood pressure is excellent" his bp was 90/60 before the fight...low blood in short can also cause weakness.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:00 pm 
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bisaya ispisyal wrote:
DaBizz wrote:
I heard of some fighters rehydrating intravenously (dextrose) after the official weigh-in.



Yes, Thats what i also do after a hard and long bicycle ride and also when i have a bad hangover and have to work :lol: I would like to correct the statement of one of the poster saying that the body replenish itself with electrolytes ... Thats not true [you have to physically replace it]. Once you're dehydrated and lose a signifanct amount of electrolytes it will be as if somebody switch-off the power from your body, thats the term we cyclists use as "hitting the wall".


Segura, Cotto and Banal. All lost at the same fashion [running out of gas] at the same night [day sa Pinas] and WAS undefeated.


Well, thats you opinion bro. Our body initially has its own countermeasures whenever there is something wrong within its system. I would like to take for instance our very own red blood cells. Potassium is generally stored within our red blood cells and not on our plasma. When the serum/plasma levels of potassium is low, RBCs will try to compensate for the loss of such electrolyte via facilitated diffusion or active transport of potassium from the red blood cells going to the plasma environment, and thats what you call basically equilibrium/maintaining a constant environment at all times for normal cellular activity. This is a type of replenishment our body initially offers. Whenever such level of potassium becomes too low, by which our body could not anymore compensate, thats the time wherein exogenous intake of potassium either in oral or intravenous route is done.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:08 pm 
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YawYan wrote:
junpals1 wrote:
AJ is taking diuretics to make his weight. This is nothing new. This is a dirty secret in Philippine boxing. The situation with AJ was desperate. Banal actually has weight problems making the 115 lb. limit. No wonder he got exhausted and dehydrated easily. AJ needs to fight in the bantamweight division. He probably will do better in that division. This is better than taking diuretics. He could die of irregular heart rhythm in the ring or out of the ring if he continues doing it. Try researching hypokalemia in the internet. It was the diuretics that made it. The loss was medication induced. I bet it was Lasix 40 mg. he was taking before the weigh in. It would have worked if that fight was short. A longer fight would be too much. He needed big time potassium tablets. Fruits and vegetable might not work.

If this is true, it is not good. If he ever used one, he probably used a potassium-wasting diuretic. If he/they plan to do it again, try to drink tea instead because it is also a diuretic. :D

It could be the culprit. However, if there is indescriminate usage of Furosemide(Lasix) or other diuretics for that matter, blood pressure would certainly decrease. This is a dangerous approach on the part of medical personnel who attended Banal since they maintained AJ's heart rate to 34-38 beats a minute with a 90/60 mmHg blood pressure. This is a horrible, terrible medical management!

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