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Oscar training not ideal - Roach
http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=115404
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Author:  EYB [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

Macario wrote:
I think people are fascinated with the David and Goliath story of this fight. Can the David [Manny Pacquiao] really beat the Goliath [Oscar De La Hoya]? Big vs. small. The Mexican-American vs. The Mexican Assassin, although Manny hates to be called that even though he’s beaten so many Mexican fighters. And a lot of people will be pulling for Manny, including a lot of Mexicans. We’re going to walk to the ring that night with Julio Cesar Chavez, Antonio Margarito and Erik Morales on our side. I could name five more if I had my head on straight. They’ll all be in our corner because Manny fights like a true Mexican and Oscar doesn’t. He’s always struggled to have Mexicans on his side. I still say that’s why he chose Nacho (Beristain) to train him. By choosing a true Mexican trainer, he’s trying to get true Mexican fans on his side. It doesn’t seem to be working. He does have a lot of fans, though. I know that.
----Roach


i cant see the congruence of david and goliath to chavez vs hoya.
did he make a survey before?

after the fight on dec 6, the chavez fans and pacnuthuggers will be on the same boat and will cherish the agony of defeat on every possible memory of it. :biglaugh:

Author:  JoeyInCali [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

Quote:
NO... not Oscar he fights with his natural weight all his life except this one.

Can you qualify that?
"Fights with his natural weight all his life..."
OR is it fought in his natural weight all his life...?

Almost all fighters lose weight to make the weight limit.
Haller, their natural weight is way above their fighting weight.

Why has Oskee lost so much weight up in Big Bear?
Simple, jogging on an empty stomach in the morning and training in the morning as well.

Good or bad? Freddie thinks it's bad.

Author:  JoeyInCali [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

Quote:
Believe me, I'd rather cut weight for a few hours than starve myself for weeks. That is why Pac always goes into the fight the next day bigger than what he weighed in at. ADVANTAGE: Pacquiao

Pardon me bro, I think almost all boxers except for the heavyweights are bigger after the weigh-in.
Who's saying ODH is starving? I think he's carbo intake is too low.
Either that or he's doing way too much enaerobic exercise.

Author:  Giovanni_88_Paolo [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

zaten wrote:
jjcross wrote:
Roach is right, if the fighter wants to lose weight he should do it 3 to 4 days before the fight. Perhaps it is Oscar's inexperience of losing weight that he experimented the program. Well... it is almost 100% Oscar will lose this fight in a devastating manner. As Oscar said it will be a CATASTROPHIC!!!



inexperienceD?
almost every fighter are trained to lose weight in every fight... :lol:



yes, fighters are trained to lose weight in every fight, but they lose weight days before the fight, and thereafter regain their desired weight. In this case, ODLH has been maintaining the 145lbs, after the fight he will thereafter gain more weight, which would certainly make him slow and sluggish. Look at King Pacman he is presently 150lbs, and during weigh in, he will tip the scales at 146 to 146 and come fight night back to his normal weight at 150lbs. 8) 8) 8)

Author:  gudz511 [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

blastman1 wrote:
Cutting weight is different from losing weight. Cutting weight is temporary and usually invloves dehydration. Losing weight is over a longer period of time and will compose of losing some kind of body mass whether it be fat or lean muscle tissue, sometimes both. To lose weight, you have to eat less so your body will have to use fat reserves for fuel instead of the food intake, and hopefully most of the weight loss id from fat. But, if you lose weight too fast, your body catabolizes and you end up losing lean muscle tissue along the way, and from that, one will feel drained and weaker, especially during a hard training camp. That could probably be why ODH got beat up by Ortiz as he didn't have the proper food intake (fuel) to give him the energy to spar. He was starving himself too early. It's best to starve yourself a few days before the fight as the hard part of training, all the sparring is already done, and you can focus on just making weight.

CUTTING weight, is not too harmful if done right and in moderation. For an average person with an average build, cutting no more than 10 pounds of water weight if the weigh-ins the day before is ideal. More than that, and that is dangerous and you can run into some health problems. Also you have to manipulate your sodium intake as sodium holds water.

You also have to load your body with water about 2 weeks before the weigh-in. When you keep drinking a lot of water (2 gallons a day) your body will get used to flushing water out of your body at a high rate. Then all of a sudden, you stop drinking water (maybe the day before you weigh in) and your body will still be used to flushing water out of your system at a high rate. You do some cardio with warm clothing, jump in the sauna, etc, and you will just keep sweating and sweating and before you know it, you're 10 pounds lighter. Now all you have to do is weigh in and then rehydrate for the fight.

Believe me, I'd rather cut weight for a few hours than starve myself for weeks. That is why Pac always goes into the fight the next day bigger than what he weighed in at. ADVANTAGE: Pacquiao

...and Oscar's team does not know this? :spin:

Author:  LightSpeed [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

gudz511 wrote:
blastman1 wrote:
Cutting weight is different from losing weight. Cutting weight is temporary and usually invloves dehydration. Losing weight is over a longer period of time and will compose of losing some kind of body mass whether it be fat or lean muscle tissue, sometimes both. To lose weight, you have to eat less so your body will have to use fat reserves for fuel instead of the food intake, and hopefully most of the weight loss id from fat. But, if you lose weight too fast, your body catabolizes and you end up losing lean muscle tissue along the way, and from that, one will feel drained and weaker, especially during a hard training camp. That could probably be why ODH got beat up by Ortiz as he didn't have the proper food intake (fuel) to give him the energy to spar. He was starving himself too early. It's best to starve yourself a few days before the fight as the hard part of training, all the sparring is already done, and you can focus on just making weight.

CUTTING weight, is not too harmful if done right and in moderation. For an average person with an average build, cutting no more than 10 pounds of water weight if the weigh-ins the day before is ideal. More than that, and that is dangerous and you can run into some health problems. Also you have to manipulate your sodium intake as sodium holds water.

You also have to load your body with water about 2 weeks before the weigh-in. When you keep drinking a lot of water (2 gallons a day) your body will get used to flushing water out of your body at a high rate. Then all of a sudden, you stop drinking water (maybe the day before you weigh in) and your body will still be used to flushing water out of your system at a high rate. You do some cardio with warm clothing, jump in the sauna, etc, and you will just keep sweating and sweating and before you know it, you're 10 pounds lighter. Now all you have to do is weigh in and then rehydrate for the fight.

Believe me, I'd rather cut weight for a few hours than starve myself for weeks. That is why Pac always goes into the fight the next day bigger than what he weighed in at. ADVANTAGE: Pacquiao

...and Oscar's team does not know this? :spin:


Reading all these posts, one can see that they are many so-called expert nutritionists here. :lol: :lol: :lol: I hope Team ODLH can read this so he can think about hiring them. :mrgreen:

Author:  nandi [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

OLD H is just making sure that he does not pay the penalty for weighing more than 147 lbs at weigh-in. Nothing more. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Author:  blastman1 [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

blackheart wrote:
I dont know what Oscar has to do to make it clear that he is not having any problems with weight, here we are 17 days away from the fight, and he has already hit weight. What else is there to say? He has said he feels strong , he has said he feels comfortable. How can anyone misinterpret that? Oscar is a pro and is surrounded by specialists, they know what they are doing...very frustrating. :banghead:


Why you getting frustrated for? Don't get frustrated man, it's only a forum. He might say he's strong and that he feels comfortable, but what else are you supposed to say in front of the camera that's going to be viewed by millions, "oh I feel weak. I feel like crap and really drained."??? Yeah RIGHT!!!

As far as hitting weight too early, 17 days is way too early. I'm guessing that ODH might have been testing the waters at 147 since he never tried going down that low for so long. He probably wanted to see how hard it would be and then adjust from there. I read that they immediately adjusted his calorie intake after that. If they made him keep starving, he and Ivan Calderon could fight at 105, and Ivan can beeatch slap him around in front of millions. But that's not what happened so MP will have to beat him up at 147.

Author:  KOWatcher [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

blastman1 wrote:
blackheart wrote:
I dont know what Oscar has to do to make it clear that he is not having any problems with weight, here we are 17 days away from the fight, and he has already hit weight. What else is there to say? He has said he feels strong , he has said he feels comfortable. How can anyone misinterpret that? Oscar is a pro and is surrounded by specialists, they know what they are doing...very frustrating. :banghead:


Why you getting frustrated for? Don't get frustrated man, it's only a forum. He might say he's strong and that he feels comfortable, but what else are you supposed to say in front of the camera that's going to be viewed by millions, "oh I feel weak. I feel like crap and really drained."??? Yeah RIGHT!!!

As far as hitting weight too early, 17 days is way too early. I'm guessing that ODH might have been testing the waters at 147 since he never tried going down that low for so long. He probably wanted to see how hard it would be and then adjust from there. I read that they immediately adjusted his calorie intake after that. If they made him keep starving, he and Ivan Calderon could fight at 105, and Ivan can beeatch slap him around in front of millions. But that's not what happened so MP will have to beat him up at 147.


Bro, I borrowed your prev post.........

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=115428

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Author:  LightSpeed [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

blackheart wrote:
I dont know what Oscar has to do to make it clear that he is not having any problems with weight, here we are 17 days away from the fight, and he has already hit weight. What else is there to say? He has said he feels strong , he has said he feels comfortable. How can anyone misinterpret that? Oscar is a pro and is surrounded by specialists, they know what they are doing...very frustrating. :banghead:


But there are better specialists here in Pacland. They can do better than the ones hired by ODLH. :lol: :lol: :lol: Just look at all their opinions above. :mrgreen:

Author:  LightSpeed [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

KOWatcher wrote:
blastman1 wrote:
blackheart wrote:
I dont know what Oscar has to do to make it clear that he is not having any problems with weight, here we are 17 days away from the fight, and he has already hit weight. What else is there to say? He has said he feels strong , he has said he feels comfortable. How can anyone misinterpret that? Oscar is a pro and is surrounded by specialists, they know what they are doing...very frustrating. :banghead:


Why you getting frustrated for? Don't get frustrated man, it's only a forum. He might say he's strong and that he feels comfortable, but what else are you supposed to say in front of the camera that's going to be viewed by millions, "oh I feel weak. I feel like crap and really drained."??? Yeah RIGHT!!!

As far as hitting weight too early, 17 days is way too early. I'm guessing that ODH might have been testing the waters at 147 since he never tried going down that low for so long. He probably wanted to see how hard it would be and then adjust from there. I read that they immediately adjusted his calorie intake after that. If they made him keep starving, he and Ivan Calderon could fight at 105, and Ivan can beeatch slap him around in front of millions. But that's not what happened so MP will have to beat him up at 147.


Bro, I borrowed your prev post.........

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=115428

:lol: :lol: :lol:


So you are urging bettors to see that post? Why? Do you have some money at stake yourself? Just wondering... :mrgreen:

Author:  KOWatcher [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

LightSpeed wrote:
KOWatcher wrote:
blastman1 wrote:

Why you getting frustrated for? Don't get frustrated man, it's only a forum. He might say he's strong and that he feels comfortable, but what else are you supposed to say in front of the camera that's going to be viewed by millions, "oh I feel weak. I feel like crap and really drained."??? Yeah RIGHT!!!

As far as hitting weight too early, 17 days is way too early. I'm guessing that ODH might have been testing the waters at 147 since he never tried going down that low for so long. He probably wanted to see how hard it would be and then adjust from there. I read that they immediately adjusted his calorie intake after that. If they made him keep starving, he and Ivan Calderon could fight at 105, and Ivan can beeatch slap him around in front of millions. But that's not what happened so MP will have to beat him up at 147.


Bro, I borrowed your prev post.........

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=115428

:lol: :lol: :lol:


So you are urging bettors to see that post? Why? Do you have some money at stake yourself? Just wondering... :mrgreen:


Why are you asking?.........Your intentions, Please???............ :shock: :shock: :shock:

Author:  LightSpeed [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

KOWatcher wrote:
LightSpeed wrote:
KOWatcher wrote:
Bro, I borrowed your prev post.........

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=115428

:lol: :lol: :lol:


So you are urging bettors to see that post? Why? Do you have some money at stake yourself? Just wondering... :mrgreen:


Why are you asking?.........Your intentions, Please???............ :shock: :shock: :shock:


Duh :shock: I asked you first and then you answered it with a questions tsk tsk tsk... Okay, never mind if that's hard for you to answer or maybe you just don't want to answer it. The latter I'm also wondering why :lol: :lol: :lol:

Author:  KOWatcher [ Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

LightSpeed wrote:
KOWatcher wrote:
LightSpeed wrote:
So you are urging bettors to see that post? Why? Do you have some money at stake yourself? Just wondering... :mrgreen:


Why are you asking?.........Your intentions, Please???............ :shock: :shock: :shock:


Duh :shock: I asked you first and then you answered it with a questions tsk tsk tsk... Okay, never mind if that's hard for you to answer or maybe you just don't want to answer it. The latter I'm also wondering why :lol: :lol: :lol:


I have money..........then what is it to you??? do you want to borrow some???

Author:  LightSpeed [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oscar training not ideal - Roach

LightSpeed wrote:
So you are urging bettors to see that post? Why? Do you have some money at stake yourself? Just wondering... :mrgreen:


KOWatcher wrote:
LightSpeed wrote:
KOWatcher wrote:

Why are you asking?.........Your intentions, Please???............ :shock: :shock: :shock:


Duh :shock: I asked you first and then you answered it with a questions tsk tsk tsk... Okay, never mind if that's hard for you to answer or maybe you just don't want to answer it. The latter I'm also wondering why :lol: :lol: :lol:


I have money..........then what is it to you??? do you want to borrow some???


Everyone here at least has some money. Try harder on your answer dude. That's not what I was asking tsk tsk tsk :lol: :lol: :lol:

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