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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:40 pm 
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Middleweight

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:41 am
Posts: 506
blastman1 wrote:
Cutting weight is different from losing weight. Cutting weight is temporary and usually invloves dehydration. Losing weight is over a longer period of time and will compose of losing some kind of body mass whether it be fat or lean muscle tissue, sometimes both. To lose weight, you have to eat less so your body will have to use fat reserves for fuel instead of the food intake, and hopefully most of the weight loss id from fat. But, if you lose weight too fast, your body catabolizes and you end up losing lean muscle tissue along the way, and from that, one will feel drained and weaker, especially during a hard training camp. That could probably be why ODH got beat up by Ortiz as he didn't have the proper food intake (fuel) to give him the energy to spar. He was starving himself too early. It's best to starve yourself a few days before the fight as the hard part of training, all the sparring is already done, and you can focus on just making weight.

CUTTING weight, is not too harmful if done right and in moderation. For an average person with an average build, cutting no more than 10 pounds of water weight if the weigh-ins the day before is ideal. More than that, and that is dangerous and you can run into some health problems. Also you have to manipulate your sodium intake as sodium holds water.

You also have to load your body with water about 2 weeks before the weigh-in. When you keep drinking a lot of water (2 gallons a day) your body will get used to flushing water out of your body at a high rate. Then all of a sudden, you stop drinking water (maybe the day before you weigh in) and your body will still be used to flushing water out of your system at a high rate. You do some cardio with warm clothing, jump in the sauna, etc, and you will just keep sweating and sweating and before you know it, you're 10 pounds lighter. Now all you have to do is weigh in and then rehydrate for the fight.

Believe me, I'd rather cut weight for a few hours than starve myself for weeks. That is why Pac always goes into the fight the next day bigger than what he weighed in at. ADVANTAGE: Pacquiao


I was right all along. Freddie Roach called it, and a bunch of the Paclanders here called it too that Oscar's weight was too low and probably was starving his body of the proper nutrients. After the fight, ODH's friend/Golden Boy CEO and some other doctor said the exact same thing, that his weight was too dam low. Some of you guys thought we didn't know what we were talking about, but this article is to let you guys know that we do indeed know what we were talking about.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=17627
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=17627


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:46 pm 
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Middleweight

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:41 am
Posts: 506
blackheart wrote:
I dont know what Oscar has to do to make it clear that he is not having any problems with weight, here we are 17 days away from the fight, and he has already hit weight. What else is there to say? He has said he feels strong , he has said he feels comfortable. How can anyone misinterpret that? Oscar is a pro and is surrounded by specialists, they know what they are doing...very frustrating. :banghead:



BS, BS and more BS. By the way this guy Blackheart still owes me money.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:47 pm 
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Heavyweight

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:35 am
Posts: 9250
According to Angelo Dundee, it was. :lol: :lol: :lol:



The Sage Of The Sweet Science

By Raymond Markarian

A true master of his craft, Angelo Dundee views his expertise from a unique angle. Like any expert, Dundee has built a resume on experience. The Socrates of boxing holds over sixty years of knowledge under his belt.

He has seen it all. Therefore we feel privileged to soak up his wisdom. Dundee is a vending machine of boxing information. We give him a token and he gives us a story.

In this session the wise one depicts the Golden Boy experience, lectures us about boxing tough guys, and tells all about an unknown friendship.

Raymond Markarian: How are you Angelo?

Angelo Dundee: Ray, everything is beautiful, what can I tell you? Just fire away, like I’ve told you before, anytime you want, I am ready.

RM: Ok great, well you know that it is always my pleasure to speak with you. Let me start by asking you about De la Hoya. It has been two weeks since the big fight. What can you tell me about the experience of working with the Golden Boy?

AD: I had such a great time at that De la Hoya thing. I had a ball. He is such a nice guy. And, the Golden Boy people, top to bottom, they are class.

RM: Really?

AD: Yeah, I really, really, had a great time I swear to God. They were training up there at Big Bear Mountain. We drove to the mountain at night. Thank God we went at night because if I had to go up there during the day I would have probably hesitated, because it is a big, big, mountain.

RM: Well, what was the training atmosphere like? How did De la Hoya look going into the fight, from your point of view?

AD: Well, I got up there, and the first thing I noticed was that this kid was so happy training there. You see, he had not trained there in a few years. My God, did the guy train.

RM: So what happened?

AD: Well, what happened was: shoulda, woulda, coulda, you can’t look back. The kid was in great shape. So he wasn’t the winner that night. That is the way I put it. There are no excuses, nothing. The better fighter that night won, Manny Pacquiao.

RM: But do you think that De la Hoya over-trained?

AD: Ah, no, no, he trained the way he wanted to train. See, De la Hoya is a happy guy in the gym. I was impressed. Let me tell you, I was impressed about the way this kid handles people. The kid was handling everything at the gym, speaking kindly with people, and then working out again. He is a remarkable kid. I could see why he has been so popular. I had never been on the scene before with De la Hoya. In fact, I had never been on the scene with Pacquiao or De la Hoya. I was impressed.

RM: So overall, the experience was good, but it was not exactly the result you were hoping for.

AD: Oh God no, I thought Oscar had the style to win, I said that before. I just felt like he was big enough, and tough enough. Oscar fought tough guys throughout his career. I watched this kid fight many, many times in L.A. when I would go there with my fighters. Everyone would go watch him because he would be fighting the toughest guys. Going into to the fight, I knew that Pacquiao was a tough guy. But I felt, if De la Hoya was fighting tough guys his entire career, then he would know how to handle this tough guy. But Pacquiao is more than that. He is slick, smart, and quick, with hands and feet.

RM: Of course.

AD: I just felt like De la Hoya was going to win. I tried, you know, with the little input I could give, I felt good about it. But it did not turn out that way. The best laid plans of mice and men, that’s life.

RM: Yeah, can you breakdown the fight for me?

AD: I felt bad…. I felt bad that he couldn’t pull the trigger. He was ready to do everything. His right hand counter in the gym was magnificent. He would have hit that guy with it. But he didn’t fire it, you know. Why didn’t he fire it? Who the hell knows? I mean, his jab started out good, then, it disappeared. In the end, you got to give credit where credit is due. Pacquiao is a great fighter.

RM: I have to ask you one more question about this De la Hoya thing; did you see anything happen in the corner that you could have done any better?

AD: Look, Nacho is a good trainer. He and De la Hoya hit it off fine. Oscar’s brother Joel is a boxing guy. Even Joe, the cut man, he is a good boxing guy as well. You see, you can’t look for kinks or faults, what happened, happened. Yeah, you never second guess, I do not go that route.

RM: Do you think De la Hoya should retire for good?

AD: That is hard to say. I think when it comes around to those kinds of things, it has to come from the source. Let me tell you, he is a real intelligent kid, he is a family man, I met his wife, and I met his kids. He is just a good guy. I was pleased with the acquaintance. The people at Golden Boy were so nice to me. I would do that trip anytime. Hey, you know, things are going great with my book. It is about to go paperback.

RM: You are talking about the book you wrote with Bert Sugar right?

AD: Yeah, “My View From The Corner”

RM: Man, I love that book.

AD: You like it alright, Ray?

RM: I would not lie to you Angie, that book is something special. There are so many great stories to read about.

AD: Thank you, I enjoyed doing it. I have seen a lot of boxing. The book basically takes place from 1948 till now, so there is a lot of history there.

RM: What do you think when you hear people say that boxing is dead?

AD: It bothers me when people talk about how boxing is in bad shape. There are guys coming along. And there are a lot of great trainers out there. We just have to get the right fighters with the best trainers and we will put America back where it belongs, on top.

RM: How do you feel about David Haye challenging the Vitali Klitschko?

AD: Interesting. I just think Klitschko is too big. I will tell you one thing, Klitschko is going to have to worry himself for three or four rounds because this kid Haye throws pineapples, and he is fast. Haye is a gun-ho guy so we are going to have an exciting first three or four rounds, anything can happen.

RM: I think it is the type of fight that can bring the attention back to the heavyweight division.

AD: Oh yeah, the little guy versus the big guy.

RM: Yeah.

AD: You know Vitali is slow enough to get hit. And this kid Haye throws pineapples. He is exciting as hell. I think he is going to juice up the heavyweight division. Haye is the Bob Satterfield type, a bombardier.

RM: He has a swagger as well, I think that could help him.

AD: Yeah, well, the guy is fearless. Haye is a ‘you or me guy.’ He trained in South Beach, with the South Florida Boxing Gym, and Trevor Seeder told me about him. Seeder told me he is exciting as hell. And he is a nice kid.

RM: You see, I think it is the heavyweight division that makes the common sports fan want to follow boxing. When the big guys are popular, people will naturally be interested.

AD: We got some gems out there. It takes time. All we need is fights Ray, I am telling you. All we need is a local kid from each area. How about this heavyweight with the Goossens, Chris Arreola, he is a big strong guy. You see, there is light out there, we just have to put them all together. It just takes time.

RM: You have a point there. What do you think about Mosley vs. Margarito? Do you think Mosley can beat Margarito?

AD: Mosley has to be in the best shape of his life to beat Margarito. He has to offset Margarito’s strength. But you see Mosley is another guy that grew up fighting tough guys. Mosley fought all the best Mexican fighters in L.A. So, you know that he has been tested. I met Mosley at the De la Hoya fight. They are all warm people there at Golden Boy.

RM: How do you feel about the Manny Pacquiao and Henry Armstrong comparison that people are throwing out there?

AD: I would not compare Pacquiao to anybody. Henry Armstrong would not like that. Henry Armstrong is Henry Armstrong. Pacquiao is a special kid and you should give Freddie Roach all accolades necessary, after the job he has done. You have to look at the bright side of everything.

RM: So is it safe to say that Freddie Roach is one of the greatest trainers in history?

AD: Well, after what he is doing, I think you can safely call Freddie one of the top trainers, certainly. Hell, Freddie was trained by the greatest trainer of them all, Eddie Futch.

RM: That’s right.

AD: I used to speak to Eddie Futch like once a week. It is not a lie, we liked each other, Eddie and I, no one really knew that. Anything that happened on his coast I would check with him and anything that would happen in my area, he would check with me. We always had a great rapport together. He was my friend for a long, long, time.

RM: I did not know that you and Futch were that close. That must have been pretty crazy with the entire Ali/Frazier thing going on.

AD: You know what’s funny? All of those guys in Frazier’s corner were from Philly, the whole corner. (Dundee laughs) We trainers all communicate with each other. Whenever any kid came from a different area, I used to call the trainer from that area. One time, Razor Ruddock came down here and he said “Oh, I want you to get me out of my contract.” Then I said ‘Wait a minute, who were you working with?’ Then Razor said, “George Chavalo.” Then I said, “How could you get better than George?” So, I called George to let him know, and he was not too happy with Razor. I told George, “Don’t worry, I ain’t going nowhere with the kid.” But I asked Ruddock, “How much would you give me for my contract?” (Dundee laughs) I did not mess with him because I respect the other trainers.

RM: So, it is like a trainer’s fraternity. Basically, you do not step on anybody’s toes, something like that?

AD: Yes, there is a special camaraderie in the profession, people don’t know how close we are.

RM: Did you ever meet a trainer that you did not get along with?

AD: No, I get along with everybody. I do not hate anybody. I try to outsmart them, try to get the win and everything, but that’s about it. I have a great respect for trainers.

RM: Sounds great, thank you for your time Angelo, I truly appreciate it.

AD: Ray, anytime you want to buzz me, feel free. Thank you.


Last edited by new town on Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Middleweight

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:41 am
Posts: 506
McClane wrote:
Remember this paclanders.....the handle 'zaten' will just naturally vanish after december 6th. It will transform into a new handle just the same way this guy hiding behind this handle transform it from brainfailure13 to zaten after the Pacman annihilated DDD.

Mark my word...a new handle will come out from nowhere after december 6th as zaten is laid down into his tomb side by side with his old handle brainfailure13......

You can still recognize him though his moronic posts and replies...


True. Where are you now Zaten?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:49 pm 
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Middleweight

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:41 am
Posts: 506
EYB wrote:
Macario wrote:
I think people are fascinated with the David and Goliath story of this fight. Can the David [Manny Pacquiao] really beat the Goliath [Oscar De La Hoya]? Big vs. small. The Mexican-American vs. The Mexican Assassin, although Manny hates to be called that even though he’s beaten so many Mexican fighters. And a lot of people will be pulling for Manny, including a lot of Mexicans. We’re going to walk to the ring that night with Julio Cesar Chavez, Antonio Margarito and Erik Morales on our side. I could name five more if I had my head on straight. They’ll all be in our corner because Manny fights like a true Mexican and Oscar doesn’t. He’s always struggled to have Mexicans on his side. I still say that’s why he chose Nacho (Beristain) to train him. By choosing a true Mexican trainer, he’s trying to get true Mexican fans on his side. It doesn’t seem to be working. He does have a lot of fans, though. I know that.
----Roach


i cant see the congruence of david and goliath to chavez vs hoya.
did he make a survey before?

after the fight on dec 6, the chavez fans and pacnuthuggers will be on the same boat and will cherish the agony of defeat on every possible memory of it. :biglaugh:


I don't think so!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Middleweight

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:41 am
Posts: 506
Giovanni_88_Paolo wrote:
zaten wrote:
jjcross wrote:
Roach is right, if the fighter wants to lose weight he should do it 3 to 4 days before the fight. Perhaps it is Oscar's inexperience of losing weight that he experimented the program. Well... it is almost 100% Oscar will lose this fight in a devastating manner. As Oscar said it will be a CATASTROPHIC!!!



inexperienceD?
almost every fighter are trained to lose weight in every fight... :lol:



yes, fighters are trained to lose weight in every fight, but they lose weight days before the fight, and thereafter regain their desired weight. In this case, ODLH has been maintaining the 145lbs, after the fight he will thereafter gain more weight, which would certainly make him slow and sluggish. Look at King Pacman he is presently 150lbs, and during weigh in, he will tip the scales at 146 to 146 and come fight night back to his normal weight at 150lbs. 8) 8) 8)


Correct!


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