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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:59 am 
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I always hear people saying that lowering the guard is a bad defense for a boxer but in reality low guard is a good defense and offense to some. Why?
1. Since your gloves is nearer the opponents face, you have better chance to beat him to the punch
2. you are guarding against body attacks
3. your opponent will have have a hard time anticipating what punch you are going to throw. left or right uppercut, left or right hooks or a short jab or short straight.
4. easier to parry a punch while it is still faraway
5. easier backswing to throw a powerpunch
6. unhampered vision
7. easier to counter
boxers with low guard
Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Prince Nazeem Hamed, Goerge Foreman, yuriokis Gamboa, Drian Francisco

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:03 am 
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ginbulag wrote:
I always hear people saying that lowering the guard is a bad defense for a boxer but in reality low guard is a good defense and offense to some. Why?
1. Since your gloves is nearer the opponents face, you have better chance to beat him to the punch
2. you are guarding against body attacks
3. your opponent will have have a hard time anticipating what punch you are going to throw. left or right uppercut, left or right hooks or a short jab or short straight.
4. easier to parry a punch while it is still faraway
5. easier backswing to throw a powerpunch
6. unhampered vision
7. easier to counter
boxers with low guard
Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Prince Nazeem Hamed, Goerge Foreman, yuriokis Gamboa, Drian Francisco


only applicable when still have good reflexes :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nHeCoTWD84

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"He's Fuckin Too fast! I felt Freddie is also in the ring hitting me too & Manny brought his knife inside the ring!" - Diaz to Pacquiao


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:30 am 
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anodedotnet wrote:
ginbulag wrote:
I always hear people saying that lowering the guard is a bad defense for a boxer but in reality low guard is a good defense and offense to some. Why?
1. Since your gloves is nearer the opponents face, you have better chance to beat him to the punch
2. you are guarding against body attacks
3. your opponent will have have a hard time anticipating what punch you are going to throw. left or right uppercut, left or right hooks or a short jab or short straight.
4. easier to parry a punch while it is still faraway
5. easier backswing to throw a powerpunch
6. unhampered vision
7. easier to counter
boxers with low guard
Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Prince Nazeem Hamed, Goerge Foreman, yuriokis Gamboa, Drian Francisco


only applicable when still have good reflexes :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nHeCoTWD84


..and if you're opponent have good reflexes as yours, you will eat a lot of leather all night.. with opponent with same speed is very dangerous, you way able to land some shots but for sure you received some as well..


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:36 am 
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No sober coach would encourage a boxer to adapt a low guard defense unless he's got speed, youth, superb reflexes and remarkable ring IQ. It's a risky style that defies boxing fundamentals. Even the best of them, Ali, Leonard and Roy Jones, had to suffer when father time started to remind them it was flawed without speed. Boxers who had great success with it are too few. Those who failed could fill the whole arena.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:40 am 
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Nobody uses this technique a lot than this guy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA0jLvUx ... re=related

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:48 am 
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anodedotnet wrote:
ginbulag wrote:
I always hear people saying that lowering the guard is a bad defense for a boxer but in reality low guard is a good defense and offense to some. Why?
1. Since your gloves is nearer the opponents face, you have better chance to beat him to the punch
2. you are guarding against body attacks
3. your opponent will have have a hard time anticipating what punch you are going to throw. left or right uppercut, left or right hooks or a short jab or short straight.
4. easier to parry a punch while it is still faraway
5. easier backswing to throw a powerpunch
6. unhampered vision
7. easier to counter
boxers with low guard
Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Prince Nazeem Hamed, Goerge Foreman, yuriokis Gamboa, Drian Francisco


only applicable when still have good reflexes :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nHeCoTWD84


this isn't a good example. Roy placed his left hand down but Tarver hit him with his left hand. This is a better example. Gatti kept is left hands low but was constantly getting smacked with his opponents' right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57w8Et1_fYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KCd8GdR ... re=related


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:14 pm 
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zakk wylde wrote:
only applicable when still have good reflexes :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nHeCoTWD84

this isn't a good example. Roy placed his left hand down but Tarver hit him with his left hand. This is a better example. Gatti kept is left hands low but was constantly getting smacked with his opponents' right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57w8Et1_fYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KCd8GdR ... re=related


that (rrj's) right hand is came from low, but his reflexes no more he imediately cover his ear not his jaw :lol:

_________________
"It feels like every time i threw, he will counter me hundred punches" - Rios to Pacquiao
"He's Fuckin Too fast! I felt Freddie is also in the ring hitting me too & Manny brought his knife inside the ring!" - Diaz to Pacquiao


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:25 pm 
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anodedotnet wrote:
zakk wylde wrote:
only applicable when still have good reflexes :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nHeCoTWD84

this isn't a good example. Roy placed his left hand down but Tarver hit him with his left hand. This is a better example. Gatti kept is left hands low but was constantly getting smacked with his opponents' right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57w8Et1_fYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KCd8GdR ... re=related


that (rrj's) right hand is came from low, but his reflexes no more he imediately cover his ear not his jaw :lol:


but remember Roy Jones had been the pound ofr pound king for quite a while

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:32 am 
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Lildevalt wrote:
No sober coach would encourage a boxer to adapt a low guard defense unless he's got speed, youth, superb reflexes and remarkable ring IQ. It's a risky style that defies boxing fundamentals. Even the best of them, Ali, Leonard and Roy Jones, had to suffer when father time started to remind them it was flawed without speed. Boxers who had great success with it are too few. Those who failed could fill the whole arena.


I disagree. here are some more boxers: Guillermo Regaudeux, Jack Dempsey, Pancho Villa, Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, vitali klitshko. Vladimir Klitshchko .See for yourself

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:57 am 
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ginbulag wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
No sober coach would encourage a boxer to adapt a low guard defense unless he's got speed, youth, superb reflexes and remarkable ring IQ. It's a risky style that defies boxing fundamentals. Even the best of them, Ali, Leonard and Roy Jones, had to suffer when father time started to remind them it was flawed without speed. Boxers who had great success with it are too few. Those who failed could fill the whole arena.


I disagree. here are some more boxers: Guillermo Regaudeux, Jack Dempsey, Pancho Villa, Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, vitali klitshko. Vladimir Klitshchko .See for yourself


Rigondeaux is young and fast. Watch him when the time comes he loses a step or two and you'll see similarities with...

How Jack Dempsey was outboxed by Gene Tunney and punished that hole he left open for himself...
How Sugar Ray Leonard was punished by Hearns' right hand and how the younger Terry Norris and Camacho breezed through that low guard.
How Sugar Ray Robinson became a stepping stone for patsies toward the end of his career.

Lucky for Vitali and Vladimir, there are no quick and gifted heavyweight challengers with the skills of Ali and Larry Holmes because it takes speed to exploit their lazy defensive guard.

What do you expect from Pancho Villa? Almost everybody was using a fencer's stance during his time. And he had losses in case u dont know.

U didnt quitely understand my point. Read again my highlighted words, that pretty sums up the essence of my post.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:13 am 
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Lildevalt wrote:
ginbulag wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
No sober coach would encourage a boxer to adapt a low guard defense unless he's got speed, youth, superb reflexes and remarkable ring IQ. It's a risky style that defies boxing fundamentals. Even the best of them, Ali, Leonard and Roy Jones, had to suffer when father time started to remind them it was flawed without speed. Boxers who had great success with it are too few. Those who failed could fill the whole arena.


I disagree. here are some more boxers: Guillermo Regaudeux, Jack Dempsey, Pancho Villa, Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, vitali klitshko. Vladimir Klitshchko .See for yourself


Rigondeaux is young and fast. Watch him when the time comes he loses a step or two and you'll see similarities with...

How Jack Dempsey was outboxed by Gene Tunney and punished that hole he left open for himself...
How Sugar Ray Leonard was punished by Hearns' right hand and how the younger Terry Norris and Camacho breezed through that low guard.
How Sugar Ray Robinson became a stepping stone for patsies toward the end of his career.

Lucky for Vitali and Vladimir, there are no quick and gifted heavyweight challengers with the skills of Ali and Larry Holmes because it takes speed to exploit their lazy defensive guard.

What do you expect from Pancho Villa? Almost everybody was using a fencer's stance during his time. And he had losses in case u dont know.

U didn't quitely understand my point. Read again my highlighted words, that pretty sums up the essence of my post.

how many wins did they have. How many losses? You are just highlighting their losses which is on average about 10% of their fights. Even great boxers will lose at some point in time. It is very very rare for a boxer to retire without a loss. How about orthodox boxers (high guard) don't they have losses too. let me include Floyd Mayweather Jr. with a low guard stance and he is considered the best defensive boxer today.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:24 am 
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ginbulag wrote:
I always hear people saying that lowering the guard is a bad defense for a boxer but in reality low guard is a good defense and offense to some. Why?
1. Since your gloves is nearer the opponents face, you have better chance to beat him to the punch

What if that boxer has average skills,reflexes and speed?
Ex. Arturo Gatti, Hamed when he stepped up against an elite fighter named Barrera

ginbulag wrote:
2. you are guarding against body attacks


Against a quick-fisted and accurate opponent, your chin is something u should worry about. His punch could get there before u could raise your guard.
Ex. Roy Jones vs. Tarver, Ali vs. Frazier I, 15th round.


ginbulag wrote:
3. your opponent will have have a hard time anticipating what punch you are going to throw. left or right uppercut, left or right hooks or a short jab or short straight.

Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather seem to fit your description. Rare talents. So rare that nothing else around comes to mind.
Will u encourage that low defensive guard for Bam bam Rios against Juan Manuel Marquez?

ginbulag wrote:
4. easier to parry a punch while it is still faraway

How sure are u if ur opponent is as quick as Mayweather and Pacquiao? Or Yuriorkis Gamboa?

ginbulag wrote:
5. easier backswing to throw a powerpunch

Are u speaking of boxing or tennis?

ginbulag wrote:
6. unhampered vision

Naturally. At the expense of adding more risk for exposing your chin

ginbulag wrote:
7. easier to counter

That is assuming you are always against a slower opponent.
How many boxers today who are actually successful with it?
Name at least 3 boxers....
the clock is ticking...
1....
2....













:biglaugh:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:27 am 
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Lildevalt wrote:
ginbulag wrote:
I always hear people saying that lowering the guard is a bad defense for a boxer but in reality low guard is a good defense and offense to some. Why?
1. Since your gloves is nearer the opponents face, you have better chance to beat him to the punch

What if that boxer has average skills,reflexes and speed?
Ex. Arturo Gatti, Hamed when he stepped up against an elite fighter named Barrera

ginbulag wrote:
2. you are guarding against body attacks


Against a quick-fisted and accurate opponent, your chin is something u should worry about. His punch could get there before u could raise your guard.
Ex. Roy Jones vs. Tarver, Ali vs. Frazier I, 15th round.


ginbulag wrote:
3. your opponent will have have a hard time anticipating what punch you are going to throw. left or right uppercut, left or right hooks or a short jab or short straight.

Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather seem to fit your description. Rare talents. So rare that nothing else around comes to mind.
Will u encourage that low defensive guard for Bam bam Rios against Juan Manuel Marquez?

ginbulag wrote:
4. easier to parry a punch while it is still faraway

How sure are u if ur opponent is as quick as Mayweather and Pacquiao? Or Yuriorkis Gamboa?

ginbulag wrote:
5. easier backswing to throw a powerpunch

Are u speaking of boxing or tennis?

ginbulag wrote:
6. unhampered vision

Naturally. At the expense of adding more risk for exposing your chin

ginbulag wrote:
7. easier to counter

That is assuming you are always against a slower opponent.
How many boxers today who are actually successful with it?
Name at least 3 boxers....
the clock is ticking...
1....
2....













:biglaugh:




kung saan ka masaya

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:40 am 
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ginbulag wrote:
Lildevalt wrote:
Rigondeaux is young and fast. Watch him when the time comes he loses a step or two and you'll see similarities with...

How Jack Dempsey was outboxed by Gene Tunney and punished that hole he left open for himself...
How Sugar Ray Leonard was punished by Hearns' right hand and how the younger Terry Norris and Camacho breezed through that low guard.
How Sugar Ray Robinson became a stepping stone for patsies toward the end of his career.

Lucky for Vitali and Vladimir, there are no quick and gifted heavyweight challengers with the skills of Ali and Larry Holmes because it takes speed to exploit their lazy defensive guard.

What do you expect from Pancho Villa? Almost everybody was using a fencer's stance during his time. And he had losses in case u dont know.

U didn't quitely understand my point. Read again my highlighted words, that pretty sums up the essence of my post.

how many wins did they have. How many losses? You are just highlighting their losses which is on average about 10% of their fights. Even great boxers will lose at some point in time. It is very very rare for a boxer to retire without a loss. How about orthodox boxers (high guard) don't they have losses too. let me include Floyd Mayweather Jr. with a low guard stance and he is considered the best defensive boxer today.


Floyd Mayweather is an exceptional defensive boxer. One of the best ever. A great and accurate counter puncher too.
Is there anybody out there who has, at least 70%, of his talent?

If low guard is such a reliable defense, how come nobody else is as successful as Floyd Mayweather?

Your suggestions are flawed because you are encouraging upstarts to adapt a vulnerable defense which requires great set of skills and extra ordinary reflexes. Just because the great fighters you mentioned had success with it in their prime, it follows that everybody can easily pattern such risky defense on his way to the top, or greatness for that matter. Ali, Jones, Leonard, et al...are probably less than 10% of those who dared try and fail. All for a simple reason they didnt have the speed and skills to go with it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:48 am 
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TS, please research the best lesson that Joe Louis learned in his knockout loss to Max Schmeling.


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