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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:07 am 
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Flyweight

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To All Paclanders and Critics:

First of all, let me greet you with Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year.

The subject above is of course debatable but let me say this, as a fan of our very own Manny Pacquaio, I do not look alone at his successes in the ring but on how he pulled himself out from the pit of poverty. With very little formal education, he competed in the larger arena where we all find ourselves to be in but with his determination and focus he made it ... and made us proud to be Pinoy once again. He is and until now the only 8 Division champion in the world, a fete that has never been previously achieved by anyone in the sport of boxing.

He suffered his first TKO loss to Torrecampo but he bounced back, registered his second TKO loss from a Thailander named Singsurat and likewise bounced back. When he was beaten fair and square by Eric Morales in their first encounter, he rose again to the challenge and he avenged his loss in a very exciting fashion with a TKO in their 2nd fight.

Manny's KO loss with Marquez is of course different from his previous losses because in his latest fight, he was put to sleep. How come then that I am of the opinion (and I stand by it) that his KO loss elevated him as GOAT? To support my view, I am quoting below an inspirational quote about defeat from the late US President Theodore Roosevelt.

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." Theodore (Teddy) Roosevelt
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As we all may agree, in the Pacquiao vs Marquez IV, Manny promised an exciting fight and he delivered but in the process suffered a humiliating KO loss. If he were a selfish individual, he could have just boxed around and avoided putting himself in a great jeopardy and take home his millions. But Manny is Manny as we all know. He cares for the fans of boxing who pays hard-earned money to watch him either live or on PPVs so he did what he promised to deliver ... a real fight in the ring.

So going back to why I consider him GOAT after his KO loss, I say this because on not the way he demolished his opponents on his way up the ladder of boxing's greatness. I say this because of the way he carried himself in accepting a humiliating defeat which so many are claiming to be his downfall and clamoring for his retirement. I say this because of how he remained positive and still kept his faith in God despite of such event in his life. I say this because he gave credit to his conqueror and asked his fans to give credit to Marquez for his KO win.

And lastly, I say this because Manny cried in front of the whole world not because of the KO loss but because he feels that he disappointed us ... his fans in Pinas and all over the world.

God Bless Us All!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:47 am 
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Welterweight

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for what? beating over the hill hall of famers, floyds leftovers, and catchweight titles
pactards :finger:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:58 am 
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Heavyweight
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johnnyj wrote:
for what? beating over the hill hall of famers, floyds leftovers, and catchweight titles
pactards :finger:

3 of the future hall of famers he beat later on won titles again.
Floid's future hall of famer victims outside of Corrales did not
win belts after.
His last 3 opponents all have lost after fighting him.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:33 am 
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Heavyweight
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johnnyj wrote:
for what? beating over the hill hall of famers, floyds leftovers, and catchweight titles
pactards :finger:



What an a$$wipe,give credits when it's due,Pacquiao almost sweep all of your fighters,what a hijo de put0 :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:35 am 
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Heavyweight
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keywizard74 wrote:
johnnyj wrote:
for what? beating over the hill hall of famers, floyds leftovers, and catchweight titles
pactards :finger:



What an a$$wipe,give credits when it's due,Pacquiao almost sweep all of your fighters,what a hijo de put0 :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Wasn't Cotto Pac's leftover?
He won another belt after Pac beat him.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:48 am 
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Cruiserweight
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Location: beauty is in the eye of the BEERHOLDER!!!
johnnyj wrote:
for what? beating over the hill hall of famers, floyds leftovers, and catchweight titles
pactards :finger:



botom line is, your fighter Juanita would never beat the same fighters that Pac beat...
even Ali was K O'ed by Frazier, but that one fight didn't make Frazier better than Ali...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:54 am 
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Light Heavyweight

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pactards to the max.. Pacquiaos achievements is a product of great matchmaking and excellent promotions.

at 135 Diaz was the weakest champion and was considered a paper champion.. He moved instantly at 147 to face De la hoya, past his prime and dehydrated who cannot even KD the father fisted forbes. He should have face other legitimate champion instead.

at 140, he faced fatton whos also the weakest among 140 champions. A mayweather left over.

at 147, cotto was also not the top dog at that weight. He also forced cotto to fight under his comfortable weight and was not the same cotto prior to the brutal loss he suffered against margarito. Neither Mosley and clottey were also the top dog at welterweight and both came from defeat.

at 154, Margarito was not also the top dog at that weight and justa came from a suspension. And the fight was not even at 154. its at 150.

In fairness to pacquio, his achievements at 130 and below is legitimate and no one should question it. At 135, 140, 147 and 154 its matchmaking. Therefore, Pacquiao can only be considered as four division champion if the basis would be the kind of competition.

His the only 8 division champion because weight classifications has been changed then.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:55 am 
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Light Heavyweight

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:53 am
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pactards to the max.. Pacquiaos achievements is a product of great matchmaking and excellent promotions.

at 135 Diaz was the weakest champion and was considered a paper champion.. He moved instantly at 147 to face De la hoya, past his prime and dehydrated who cannot even KD the father fisted forbes. He should have face other legitimate champion instead.

at 140, he faced fatton whos also the weakest among 140 champions. A mayweather left over.

at 147, cotto was also not the top dog at that weight. He also forced cotto to fight under his comfortable weight and was not the same cotto prior to the brutal loss he suffered against margarito. Neither Mosley and clottey were also the top dog at welterweight and both came from defeat.

at 154, Margarito was not also the top dog at that weight and justa came from a suspension. And the fight was not even at 154. its at 150.

In fairness to pacquio, his achievements at 130 and below is legitimate and no one should question it. At 135, 140, 147 and 154 its matchmaking. Therefore, Pacquiao can only be considered as four division champion if the basis would be the kind of competition.

His the only 8 division champion because weight classifications has been changed then.

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The best thing about
the future is that it only
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:58 am 
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Cruiserweight
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Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 6:39 am
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Pac should retire before suffering another humiliated lost.

But he is just fighting for the money nowadays. Gone were the days that Pac is so committed to boxing.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:19 am 
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Heavyweight
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:56 am
Posts: 18704
Location: Paradise
mauragon wrote:
pactards to the max.. Pacquiaos achievements is a product of great matchmaking and excellent promotions.

at 135 Diaz was the weakest champion and was considered a paper champion.. He moved instantly at 147 to face De la hoya, past his prime and dehydrated who cannot even KD the father fisted forbes. He should have face other legitimate champion instead.

at 140, he faced fatton whos also the weakest among 140 champions. A mayweather left over.

at 147, cotto was also not the top dog at that weight. He also forced cotto to fight under his comfortable weight and was not the same cotto prior to the brutal loss he suffered against margarito. Neither Mosley and clottey were also the top dog at welterweight and both came from defeat.

at 154, Margarito was not also the top dog at that weight and justa came from a suspension. And the fight was not even at 154. its at 150.

In fairness to pacquio, his achievements at 130 and below is legitimate and no one should question it. At 135, 140, 147 and 154 its matchmaking. Therefore, Pacquiao can only be considered as four division champion if the basis would be the kind of competition.

His the only 8 division champion because weight classifications has been changed then.

4 lineal titles .
The only ex-flyweight titlist to win a lineal belt at 126.
When Hatton was the lineal titlist at 140, Bradley was the other notable champ. As Pac already showed, Bradley got shi at. Most media people had him losing 9 rounds to Pac.
There will never be an ex-flyweight titlist that will fight for the WBC lightweight belt IMO.
Not in this lifetime anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:27 am 
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Cruiserweight
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Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 6:39 am
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mauragon wrote:
pactards to the max.. Pacquiaos achievements is a product of great matchmaking and excellent promotions.

at 135 Diaz was the weakest champion and was considered a paper champion.. He moved instantly at 147 to face De la hoya, past his prime and dehydrated who cannot even KD the father fisted forbes. He should have face other legitimate champion instead.

at 140, he faced fatton whos also the weakest among 140 champions. A mayweather left over.

at 147, cotto was also not the top dog at that weight. He also forced cotto to fight under his comfortable weight and was not the same cotto prior to the brutal loss he suffered against margarito. Neither Mosley and clottey were also the top dog at welterweight and both came from defeat.

at 154, Margarito was not also the top dog at that weight and justa came from a suspension. And the fight was not even at 154. its at 150.

In fairness to pacquio, his achievements at 130 and below is legitimate and no one should question it. At 135, 140, 147 and 154 its matchmaking. Therefore, Pacquiao can only be considered as four division champion if the basis would be the kind of competition.

His the only 8 division champion because weight classifications has been changed then.



I kinda agree with you a little bit with this one.

But same thing with Floyd, the reason why he is still undefeated is because of a good match making.

That's boxing right there bro, unlike MMA that the best fights the best.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:08 am 
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Light Heavyweight

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:53 am
Posts: 1187
jamsky wrote:
mauragon wrote:
pactards to the max.. Pacquiaos achievements is a product of great matchmaking and excellent promotions.

at 135 Diaz was the weakest champion and was considered a paper champion.. He moved instantly at 147 to face De la hoya, past his prime and dehydrated who cannot even KD the father fisted forbes. He should have face other legitimate champion instead.

at 140, he faced fatton whos also the weakest among 140 champions. A mayweather left over.

at 147, cotto was also not the top dog at that weight. He also forced cotto to fight under his comfortable weight and was not the same cotto prior to the brutal loss he suffered against margarito. Neither Mosley and clottey were also the top dog at welterweight and both came from defeat.

at 154, Margarito was not also the top dog at that weight and justa came from a suspension. And the fight was not even at 154. its at 150.

In fairness to pacquio, his achievements at 130 and below is legitimate and no one should question it. At 135, 140, 147 and 154 its matchmaking. Therefore, Pacquiao can only be considered as four division champion if the basis would be the kind of competition.

His the only 8 division champion because weight classifications has been changed then.



I kinda agree with you a little bit with this one.

But same thing with Floyd, the reason why he is still undefeated is because of a good match making.

That's boxing right there bro, unlike MMA that the best fights the best.



floyds greatness is also tainted by avoiding the best in his career.

Floyds achievements is not purely a product of matchmaking. Infact he could have defeated fighters whom he avoided if he took the risk. He could have defeated Pacquiao, He could have defeated Williams and Martinez, and He could have defeated Margarito, Mosley and Cotto on thier primes. Floyd never took risk. He only fights if there is no risk involved and hes 100 percent sure that hes going to win. Hes the boss and the one who decides who he is going to fight.

Floyd has a great skills, his skills are excellent, and second to none. Its his heart that that separates him as an all time great. he is not a real warrior.

Lastly, i do believe De la hoya defeated him on that very close fight.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:20 am 
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Cruiserweight
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mauragon wrote:


floyds greatness is also tainted by avoiding the best in his career.

Floyds achievements is not purely a product of matchmaking. Infact he could have defeated fighters whom he avoided if he took the risk. He could have defeated Pacquiao, He could have defeated Williams and Martinez, and He could have defeated Margarito, Mosley and Cotto on thier primes. Floyd never took risk. He only fights if there is no risk involved and hes 100 percent sure that hes going to win. Hes the boss and the one who decides who he is going to fight.

Floyd has a great skills, his skills are excellent, and second to none. Its his heart that that separates him as an all time great. he is not a real warrior.

Lastly, i do believe De la hoya defeated him on that very close fight.



Yeah, but still a good match-making has something to do with his undefeated record.

Remember back in the days were he was not a PPV material yet, he's not the boss yet during that time. Remember when he fought Castillo, I thought he lost that fight and they had a rematch and Floyd won convincingly. And after that fight Floyds opponent are all tomato cans because he is under top rank during those years and Arum was protecting him. But now he is no longer with Arum thats why he can pick any fighter he wants to fight.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:27 am 
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Light Heavyweight
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jamsky wrote:
mauragon wrote:
pactards to the max.. Pacquiaos achievements is a product of great matchmaking and excellent promotions.

at 135 Diaz was the weakest champion and was considered a paper champion.. He moved instantly at 147 to face De la hoya, past his prime and dehydrated who cannot even KD the father fisted forbes. He should have face other legitimate champion instead.

at 140, he faced fatton whos also the weakest among 140 champions. A mayweather left over.

at 147, cotto was also not the top dog at that weight. He also forced cotto to fight under his comfortable weight and was not the same cotto prior to the brutal loss he suffered against margarito. Neither Mosley and clottey were also the top dog at welterweight and both came from defeat.

at 154, Margarito was not also the top dog at that weight and justa came from a suspension. And the fight was not even at 154. its at 150.

In fairness to pacquio, his achievements at 130 and below is legitimate and no one should question it. At 135, 140, 147 and 154 its matchmaking. Therefore, Pacquiao can only be considered as four division champion if the basis would be the kind of competition.

His the only 8 division champion because weight classifications has been changed then.



I kinda agree with you a little bit with this one.

But same thing with Floyd, the reason why he is still undefeated is because of a good match making.

That's boxing right there bro, unlike MMA that the best fights the best.


yup that's why neither of them is the GOAT.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:45 am 
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BEELZEBUB wrote:
johnnyj wrote:
for what? beating over the hill hall of famers, floyds leftovers, and catchweight titles
pactards :finger:



botom line is, your fighter Juanita would never beat the same fighters that Pac beat...
even Ali was K O'ed by Frazier, that one fight didn't make Frazier better than Ali...


floyd also fought pac's left overs...


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